Talk:List of Byzantine inventions

Lists Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Middle Ages Mid‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Invention Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Invention, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Invention on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InventionWikipedia:WikiProject InventionTemplate:WikiProject InventionInvention
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Possible Byzantine inventions

Just a few suggestions where to look for further possible inventions:

Arch dam: the Glanum Dam aside, the Dara Dam appears from Procopius' record to have been the first arch dam, although, on the other hand, recent investigations in situ could not confirm its recorded shape
Combined arms tactics manual: while use of these tactics was surely timeless, Byzantines generals have left a lot to say on them
Dromon: actually a type of bireme, and as such standing in a long tradition of Med galleys, but it may have had some innovative features which may warrant an entry
Flame-thrower (siphon): a certain entry, although unrelated to the modern flame-throwers which originated from a German design
Paul of Aegina: an ingenious early Byzantine scholar
Pointed arch: fully developed in the Karamagara Bridge, but shallow pointed arches are AFAIK already present in earlier Byzantine buildings such as the Basilica of San Vitale
~~University: the first is conventionally the Bologna University, but the University of Constantinople may still be worth a look~~
Walls of Constantinople: worth to take a look for novel features Gun Powder Ma (talk) 00:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if they were original inventions, since the science to build them was Hellenistic, and they appeared at about the same time as similar Arab automata, but the moving metal statues of the Great Palace would probably qualify... Also, if I remember correctly, there was a sort of late 4th-century slot machine found near the Hippodrome. Again, it is by no means certain, AFAIK, that this does not originate earlier. Constantine ✍ 12:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I second adding Combined arms, Dromon, and Flame-thrower (siphon) to the page. MarkoPolo56 (talk) 20:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Greek Fire Lost in 1204?

I've read that they used it to great effect against the Turks in the siege of Constantenople; I also have a book that would say so... MarkoPolo56 (talk) 14:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Having a WP:reliable source is a minimum requirement for the claim to be introduced. Could you post it here first? Gun Powder Ma (talk) 23:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's Greek fire and there's "Greek fire": the first is a very specific weapon with very specific qualities and a very specific delivery system, the latter is a generic term used for all sorts of incendiary substances. As the relevant article makes clear, the former was definitely lost by 1204, but several forms of "Greek fire" continued to be used thereafter. It is easy for writers to make the mistake of equating any incendiary substance used by the Byzantines with the Greek fire that destroyed the Arab and Rus' fleets... Constantine ✍ 00:11, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The book is called "TimeFrame: 1400-1500, Voyages of Discovery" by Time-Life Books, 1989. On page 85, it talks of how just a few (possibly four) Byzantine ships armed with Greek Fire were able to fend off numerous attacking Turkish ships. You can find the book at: http://books.google.com/books/about/Voyages_of_discovery.html?id=sSR_4paxIqsC MarkoPolo56 (talk) 14:51, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but TIme-Life books are not really scholarly studies on the subject. Scholarly consensus, as presented in the sources cited at the Greek fire article, is that it had been lost by 1204. Unless a better source is forthcoming, which cites from the relevant secondary or primary source, this claim is spurious. It was most probably taken from some other book that used "Greek fire" as a shorthand for "incendiary substances" and then misinterpreted to mean "Greek fire" proper. Constantine ✍ 15:03, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, that is saddening; that was the only place I saw it, but then again this thread (http://archive.worldhistoria.com/greek-fire--1453-cnstantinople_topic23982.html) says that it was used and is in a secondary source; it might be worth checking out... MarkoPolo56 (talk) 16:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the description you linked to probably refers to generic incendiary substances, or is a deliberate anachronism by the modern translator. I once read an analysis of the question of whether it was used in 1453, unfortunately I cannot remember where. The conclusion, however, based on a critical review of the primary sources, was that Greek fire proper was not used. Constantine ✍ 22:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unnamed Device

Since it's unnamed, I have no idea how I would list it, but this device that's been nicknamed the 'Byzantine iPad' was discovered. Source: http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/byzantine-ipad-found-in-ancient-shipwreck-14051.htm Irockz (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]