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Would it make sense to make a separate article for the women's division?

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Would it be worthwhile to split this article and move the women's division to a separate page? The page is now getting longer with details for each division. We already do separate articles for the men's and women's seasons. Or is it better to just have it as a single page? Just a thought I had, wondering what others think. RedPatch (talk) 15:38, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's an idea worth exploring. The current article is basically two articles, one after another. BLAIXX 21:05, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I created a draft here. I added a women's focused history section and then basically cut and pasted the women's sections from this article. We can move it to something like League1 Ontario (women) or similar, perhaps if a few others agree with the article split. RedPatch (talk) 14:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The draft looks good! There is clearly enough cited content for a separate article. I think we should give a couple more days for this discussion and then if there are no objections, you can create the article. BLAIXX 03:43, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well with the announcement today that they will be created multiple divisions with pro/rel, the article will get even more complicated, so splitting it makes even more sense now, imo. RedPatch (talk) 18:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Made a men's division draft.It could remain at the base as Primary Topic or would it be better to move that to League1 Ontario (men)? RedPatch (talk) 18:45, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh boy, that's going to keep us busy when the time comes! As for the article title, I would think to leave the men's division article at "League1 Ontario" for now but I'm open to revisiting that in the future. BLAIXX 03:34, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@RedPatch: are you ready to split the article? BLAIXX 00:04, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'll do it now. RedPatch (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized a bunch of articles might need some redirecting now to link to the women's page. I'll see if I can chip away at those. RedPatch (talk) 00:51, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I'll go through the list too. The hatnote in place on the L1O article is a good start. BLAIXX 00:56, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should L1O be changed to L1ON?

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The logo as well as the League1 Canada website list the league as L1ON now. Should references be changed to L1ON now to match that? RedPatch (talk) 20:53, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Although this will likely be the case, it may be worthwhile to wait on a source from CSB or L1O to confirm the new nomenclature. Zadora13 (talk) 00:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not yet. L1O is still the more common short form for now. BLAIXX 00:15, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clubs map

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Since the clubs' map is really crowded, what about dividing the independent clubs in 3 different Southern Ontario maps, one for each division? Wikidoge04 (talk) 18:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t love the idea of have 4 maps because that would really clutter up the article. That being said, the maps we have now aren’t working either so something does need to change. I’m going to experiment a bit with dynamic maps. BLAIXX 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've made a change and I'm pretty happy with it! Let me know what you think. BLAIXX 22:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've just seen the message but I already saw the new map, I think you did a grat job, 2 is a good number of maps for the article and now the club names have "space to breathe", the third map will be needed only if more clubs from places like Thunder Bay or Sault St Marie joins the league. Wikidoge04 (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article split?

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I see that Itswilly123 has been working on splitting up this article so that there's one for each division and has created Draft:League1 Ontario Premier and League1 Ontario Championship. I am wondering if it makes sense to split the article at all, here are my thoughts:

1. League1 Ontario is run as one league with three divisions. This means that pretty much everything that applies to the Premier division, applies to the Championship division too (in terms of season format, league rules, etc). There's not much unique to say about each division.

2. The current article is not that long. At less than 1500 words, it is far below WP:SIZESPLIT which means it's easy to digest without making readers jump between pages. I personally like that everything is in one place.

3. Assuming we create articles for each division, plus keep this one as an overview, there would be four articles for the L1O men's division. This just feels like overkill to me considering the relatively low notability of this topic. BLAIXX 16:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Blaixx,
I started work on each league article due to the size of the origional League1 Ontario looking a bit overstreched with each tier all wrapped into one article and making it difficult to read and understand. I also took inspiration from the Australian version of League1 Canada, called [Premier Leagues]. With their main article being situated there as a main hub for the National Premier Leagues including teams, competition of each Australian division. Beginning the question do we need a League1 Ontario hub? When we could just use a League1 Hub for all the leagues including BC, Alberta and Quebec. Having Quebec expanding to League2 Quebec, which I doubt a wiki will be needed, unless they follow the same approacah as Ontario and make it as 12 team league.
They also operate a promotion and relegation system, with only the top tiers having their own wiki pages. You can look into this on the [Soccer Pyramid] where they link show the different leagues of the semipro tier. With no wiki pages the further you go down.
I also agree it would be a bit overkill, hence why the bottom tier, League2, I won't be making a page for, I have also been thinking of using just one article for the Mens and Womens. So League1 Premier with consist of both the men and women information.
This is what I believe we should do:
League1 - Wiki Page Hub, the central hub for League1 where we can access all the leagues.
League1 Premier - Wiki page for the top tier of league1 ontario semi football for men and women.
League1 Championship - Wiki page for the second to top tier of league1 ontario semi football for men and women.
Ligue1 Quebec - Wiki page for the top tier of league1 Quebec semi football for men and women.
League1 Alberta - Wiki page for the top tier of league1 Alberta semi football for men and women.
Ligue1 BC - Wiki page for the top tier of league1 BC semi football for men and women.
Thats all the wikis we should have for League1, we dont need the regional divison league page. We should also keep the league1 Ontario season xxxx summary all together. Thinks this is a nice way of keeping all the league pages organised and togther.
Thanks!
Willy Itswilly123 (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Messed up on the links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_soccer_league_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Premier_Leagues
My bad! Itswilly123 (talk) 18:24, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reply 3, seen on the premier page, I started the women's side. Adding titles, trophies, inaugural clubs, will be doing the club info and map tomorrow. Itswilly123 (talk) 20:12, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, use two square brackets to like to a wiki page [[National Premier Leagues]] becomes National Premier Leagues. BLAIXX 21:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So in your proposal, where do the League2 Ontario teams get listed? What about the League1 (Ontario) Cup? I don't think there's a good spot.
I also don't like the idea of re-grouping the men's and women's divisions. This would maybe make sense if each L1O tier were its own league with men's and women's divisions but the way L1O operates is more as two gendered leagues, each with their own tiered divisions. It's a subtle distinction but I think it's important. BLAIXX 21:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of a central League1 Article, League1 Canada already exists. In comparing NPL to League1 with separate articles for its divisions the general League1 Canada article is akin to the NPL base article, and the separate NPL articles like Tasmania, NSW, Queenland, etc are akin to Ont, BC, Alberta, and Quebec. RedPatch (talk) 22:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Blaixx @RedPatch
As I was adding the Women's Premier to the Men's Premier, I realised it created a mess which I was trying to avoid when spliting the leagues into different articles. So it would be best to split them into its own articles.
On paper and looking into into it, League1 is in theory NPL in Australia but 20 years behind. 20 or so years ago the NPL looked very similar to League1 as it is now. The further you go down the pyramid the less important and less likely you actually need an article for a 24 team league based in conferences, made up of majority B teams. Therefore, I dont believe we need a article for League2 Ontario. However when coming into the Premier and Championship, I feel we need to seperate them into its own articles. I still believe we should use the "2024 League1 Ontario Season" as a general hub for tables and results, including all 3 tiers.
I think it is Canadas turn to follow by example how every other country operates its leagues through wikipedia.
"League1 Ontario" does not need to exist. It will infact live on in League1 Premier, which it is infact the same thing. This is how I picture the League1 should be organised. This is what I propose for individual articles:
Each point represents the Mens page and an individual Womens page:

  • League1 Canada - The central hub for everything, showing all teams (what division but no details about them).

  • League1 Premier - The main page for the top teams of the tier 3 pyramid who compete to qualify for the Canadian Championship, who goes on to play against the Tier1 teams. Team details as well.
  • League1 Championship - The main page for the emerging teams of the tier 3 pyramid who compete to qualify for League1 Premier. Team details as well.
  • League2 Ontario - NO PAGE NOT NEEDED NOT RELEVANT ENOUGH

  • Ligue1 Quebec - The main page for the top teams of the tier 3 pyramid who compete to qualify for the Canadian Championship, who goes on to play against the Tier1 teams. Team details as well.
  • Ligue2 Quebec - NO PAGE NOT NEEDED NOT RELEVANT ENOUGH

  • League1 BC - The main page for the top teams of the tier 3 pyramid who compete to qualify for the Canadian Championship, who goes on to play against the Tier1 teams. Team details as well.

  • League1 Alberta - The main page for the top teams of the tier 3 pyramid who compete to qualify for the Canadian Championship, who goes on to play against the Tier1 teams. Team details as well.
Itswilly123 (talk) 02:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see this as an improvement to the current article structure. The Canadian soccer league system is unique compared to the rest of the world and the Wikipedia articles should reflect that. We don't need to fit a square peg into a round hole. I think there's definitely room to improve the L1O article but I don't think chopping it up to mimic the league structure of other countries is the solution. BLAIXX 15:32, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So at the semi-pro level in Canada there is:
  • League1 Canada – umbrella organization founded in 2022. Does not operate any competition besides the Women's IPC. All of the provincial leagues operate more or less independently from each other.
  • League1 Ontario – founded in 2014 and operated by the Ontario Soccer Association. This entity operates a senior division (divided into 3 tiers) a league cup (open to all senior teams) and a U20 reserve division.
  • Quebec/BC/Alberta leagues.
I think it's important that there be a League1 Ontario article since that is a notable entity which operates competitions that do not need their own articles but are worth mentioning. This brings me back to my three original points: the current article reflects the actual organization of leagues; the article is not too long (but could be reformatted); we don't need 4 (or even 3) articles. BLAIXX 16:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lets remove the point of Quebec/BC/Alberta as this is entirely about Ontario.
I do understand your argument competely about the article not being too long. However, I will argue the fact that I mainly split the league into its own articles as it will set the foundation for the league as it expands in information and history over time. I don't think there is anything wrong in the way of getting ahead of the curve. Taking in your point of how the league is operated by Ontario and not League1, you make a good point on how we should have the League1 Ontario article page. we can also compare it to the EFL main page.
English Football League
This layout and how the article is made can be used for the League1 Ontario page. Just for the state of Ontario instead of England like the article shows, just on a shorter scale. What I want to do is lay the foundations as we turn into the new format and future for League1 Ontario. So we can build upon it for the future. I propose this:
  • League1 Ontario - Styled like English Football League Styling it like this will massively increase the size of the page.
  • League1 Premier - Styled like USL League One and USL Championship. Even though the European leagues write their articles differently. I have been basing my two articles from the USL leagues, giving it a North American look.
  • League1 Championship - Similar to the points I made above.
  • League2 - Mainly made up of B teams, I don't see a point of having this page needed. Therefore will argue that a page is not needed. However results shown in the 2024 League1 Ontario season should remain. Furthermore the main League1 Ontario page will also consists of the league winners. Basically having all the major information without a article needed for this page.
  • l1 Cup - I was debating making this page but I don't know if its worth it with having hardly information, Might as well keep it on the League1 Ontario page.
That is all we should have for League1 Ontario. Itswilly123 (talk) 12:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think a decent comparison is Northern Premier League, tier 7 and 8 of England, which uses one article for their multiple divisions (which includes pro/rel). Technically, L1O is all within one tier (3) as well, but it is pretty niche and receives barely any media coverage (besides Northern Tribune, which is more of a blog-type media source anyways). While being tier 3 makes it seem kind of bigger level, the reality is it's not that high, hence the comparison to tier 7 and 8 in England (which is likely a much higher level than L1O in actuality). As you mention, L2O isn't really notable enough on its own for an article as well as L1 Cup, but they should get mentioned somewhere and the single article allows for that. The article can definitely be improved and better organized and maybe if the league continues to grow in prominence a split may eventually be needed (like how the women and men were originally one article before being split), but I don't think that time is yet. RedPatch (talk) 13:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As much as I want to be able to have the league split into articles, the points are valid. I am a very big fan on how my Premier and Championship pages turned out and look incredible good. I'm not sure how to convert it all into the infobox without making it look messy.
If it will be merged all together into the League1 Page. I am going to do a massive massive overhaul on the entire page. Will result in changing and removing a lot of stuff. Itswilly123 (talk) 13:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No offence or insult needed to the origional author of course, I think its time for a very large and modernize upgrade. Itswilly123 (talk) 13:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I think Men (L1OP, L1OC, L2O) and Women (L1OP, L1OC, L2O) is an easier split than L1P (men and women), L1OC (men and women) and makes more sense and easier comparison to see pro/rel and movement up and down as it's based on gender. RedPatch (talk) 13:07, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

League1 Ontario Overhaul

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Where I will update and talk through the changes I make. Itswilly123 (talk) 13:57, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update 1
  • Infobox redesigned and re-updated with more streamlined and up-to-date information.
  • History given subheaders and added my reorganized section, info about the new format and the inaugural top 12 teams.
Itswilly123 (talk) 14:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update 2
  • Began reworking the club section.
    • Removed the map consisting of all the clubs, is not needed.
    • Updated Premier, Championship and Leagu2 for the 2025 season.
    • Redesigned the map and tables with more up to date information and more presentable.
    • Removed League2 table, conferences will constantly change and will be shown on the "20XX Season" article instead. Only bullet point the teams as they arent major and majority B teams.
Thinking about removing the timeline. Don't think theres a point as it will just get bigger and bigger as more teams are added. It is promotion and relegation, so whats the point of it? Itswilly123 (talk) 21:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Timeline should be left as it is, League2 clubs' list should stay and the map should be about the independent clubs member of L10 instead of the clubs of every division since there are reserve teams in Championship. Wikidoge04 (talk) 19:25, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also you should restore the notes about each club Wikidoge04 (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Blaixx, I want to update the competition format next, for the table has it been confirmed how to promotion and relegation will work? Is it two up two down between the premier and championship? Or is it 1 gurantee pro/rel and a playoff between second last to second from top? Itswilly123 (talk) 17:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Last year was 1 automatic + 1 playoff. There's been no announcement for 2025 but I'd assume 1+1 is still the system. BLAIXX 03:10, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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