Talk:Lala Lajpat Rai

What is केसरी, afterall ?

He is often entitled पंजाब केसरी, but most people do not know its meaning ! In fact, most text-book authors have wongly translated it as "lion" etc, which is wrong. The hindi term केसरी is a corruption of the Latin name Caesar - the cognomen of the Roman dictator Caius Julius Cæsar, transferred as a title to the emperors from Augustus down to Hadrian (b.c. 30 to a.d. 138), and subsequently used as a title of the heir-presumptive of the emperor. In modern use often applied to all the emperors down to the fall of Constantinople. The term later travelled to Byzantine emperors as "Caesar" in Persian Qaisar-e-Rum केसर-ए-रूम ( रूम is corruption of Rome ).And, ultimately, in hindustani the term in its broadest sense came to mean as conqurer  Jon Ascton  (talk) 09:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Point of View

This is a very one sided article and not very informative about Lala Lajpat Rai's career. What is missing is his role in the Arya Samaj, his advocacy of Hindi over Punjabi (ironic because of his own inabilty to read and write Hindi !), and his advocacy for a two nation state (much earlier than Mohammad Iqbal). True, he sacrificed a lot for the independence movement, but his (and the Arya Samaj's) call for Punjabi Hindus to declare Hindi (over Punjabi) as their mother tongue starting with the 1891 census set in motion a rift between the Hindu and Sikh communities which has not healed to this day. Arguably, Lajpat Rai and his Arya Samaji cohorts are the ones most responsible for this rift and the alienation of substantial number of urban Punjabi Hindus from Punjabi and their concomitant deracination. This has been completely glossed over in this article.

5/1/2007 - This article has a distinct POV as noted by the interactor above. Long time ago, there was some material in this article re. Lajpat Rai's advocacy of Hindi as the mother tongue for Punjabi Hindus, for census purposes. That seems to have been removed. The material here glosses over the long term harm done by Lajpat Rai's support of Hindi, to communal relations between the Hindus and Sikhs in the Punjab. Would somebody more knowledgeable than me add material on this gentleman's advocacy of Hindi and general communal outlook. Thanks

Lal-Bal-Pal

Some reference is surely due to the slogan comprising the famous trio (Lal - Lala Lajpat Rai of Punjab, Bal - Bal Gangadhar Tilak of Maharashtra and Pal - Bepin Chandra Pal of Bengal) who, much before the arrival of Gandhiji on the scene, championed the shift of Congress policies and pronouncements from those of a mendicant to legitimate demands of a proud people? Apart from Sri Aurobindo, these three were the earliest leaders to take on the moderates led by Gokhle, Bannerjee and Mehta - who dominated Congress till then, and faced with a popular challenge mounted against their authority from the Nationalists, tried to run them down with the appellation "extremists" - and propagate the Nationalist philosophy as a self-respecting alternative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.206.117 (talk) 06:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Article sites Lala Lajpat Rai was a Jain

Although the parents were Agrawals, article sites that Lala Lajpat Rai was born in a Jain family. Is it correct? The citation (2) looks broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.140.133.214 (talk) 17:15, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes he was born in jain family Animesh samaiya1 (talk) 08:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Martyrs' Day

User:Tinpisa calls [4] a "press release" (and thus not a reliable source). While is on the face of it true (it is indeed a press release), it's a press release from the Government of India, not some random company. Meanwhile, the cited source is also a governmental body (state, rather than national). If the National Government is not reliable, then the Orissa government cannot be reliable either.

Here are some Google Books search results for Lala Lajpat Rai "martyrs day" (most of these results are only available in "Snippet View" on the search results page):

• Encyclopaedia of Indian Events & Dates says January 30
• Hindustan year-book and who's who says January 30
• India Meteorological Dept says January 30
• India Ministry of Information and Broadcasting says January 30
• Martyr as Bridegroom: A Folk Representation of Bhagat Singh mentions something about 'Kakori Martyrs Day' as celebrated by the Naujawan Bharat Sabha
• My meetings with Bhagat Singh and on other early revolutionaries also mentions "The Naujawan Bharat Sabha had passed a resolution to celebrate the Kakori case martyrs' day on 16 ..." (and unfortunately we can't see the rest of the quote).

Some Google web search results:

• The Observer writes in the January 26-February 1, 1997 issue, "And with Martyrs' Day being just round the corner..." which indicates January 30 to me
• Scoop News says March 23 is Martyrs' Day (death of Bhagat Singh)
• The South Asian Research Centre for Advertisement, Journalism, and Cartoons says it's November 19 (birthday of Rani of Jhansi)
• Asianetindia (reliable source?) says January 30
• The Statesman says March 23
• Zee News calls July 13 Martyrs' Day (in Jammu & Kashmir)
• The Sentinel goes with January 30

So my research indicates there are number of days named "Martyrs' Day", the most common ones are January 30 and March 23. In fact, the only one I found that says December 16 for sure is the Orissa government.

I don't even know why I'm spending so much time on this. I'm not Indian and I don't particularly care what day it is. My only goal was trying to add it to the right day for Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries, but apparently you've put a bee in my bonnet. howcheng {chat} 21:25, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Howcheng. You have the answer in your post itself. The source in Martyrs' Day (India) is a press release. Period. The source here is not a press release, but is published on (Government) State Portal (http://orissa.gov.in) which is far more Verificable and reliable compared to a press release. I had questioned this precisely here and received no clear answer on the policy. Second, you have proved that the Martyrs' Day in India is on a number of days, not just January 30. There are more sources for Jan 30 (but they probably reflect the WP article), but there are a number of other dates as well. Probably, this could be put into he Martyrs' Day (India) article. But, there is absolutely no justification in removing this information when there are verificable sources proving it here. --Tinpisa (talk) 12:09, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

and I would greatly appreciate you to put back what you reversed. Either prove that the two sources here are not Verificable or reliable or what they state is false or there is a Wikipedia policy that allows this, or you must put back what you reversed. Needless to say, your nationality or your being an admin doesn't matter on this edit. If you decide not to reverse your deletion, I shall sadly have to do so myself. I shall be very sad, since it would show an admin in very poor light. Have I made myself clear? Thanks. Tinpisa (talk) 19:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

A press release is not inherently unreliable in and of itself. In this case, it is still a official government pronouncement, so I still think it can be counted a reliable source. In any case, I don't think that declaring November 17 as the sole Martyrs' Day is correct, so I put it back in to say it's one of several. howcheng {chat} 02:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Birthplace of Lala Lajpat Rai

Which is the correct location of Lalaji's bith? --Mrutyunjaya Kar (talk) 07:46, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

1. Lala Lajpat Rai was born on 28 January 1865 in Jagraon town in Ludhiana.
2. Lala Lajpat Rai was born on January 28, 1865 in village Dhudike, Moga district of Punjab.
3. Lala Lajpat Rai was born in 1865 into an Aggarwal (trader) family. His birth took place at his maternal grand-parents' home in a village called Dhudike in Ferozpur District while his mother was visiting there.

uugfedwugCD — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.98.12.115 (talk) 08:30, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2019

Insert the following in the legacy section

He founded numerous entities including Arya Gazette at Lahore, Hisar Congress, Arya Samaj at Hisar, Hisar Bar Council, national D.A.V. College Managing Committee, Lakshmi Insurance Company (merged with Life Insurance Corporation of India in 1956), still-extant Lakshmi Building at Karachi and Gulab Devi Memorial hospital at Lahore. 222.164.212.168 (talk) 11:07, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Already in article, in Lala_Lajpat_Rai#Movements_and_institutes_founded_by_Lala_Lajpat_Rai. Fish+Karate 11:05, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Religious Background of Lala Lajpat Rai

Someone has been editing his early life section and writing him Jain. But he was from a Punjabi/Hindu/Baniya(Aggarwal) family. I come from his city Jagraon and I have been in touch with his descendants(The trusty of the RK Trust). I have verified the information regarding his family's religious background.

Lala Laj Rai was part of the INC (https://inc.in/congress-sandesh/tribute/lala-lajpat-rai-28th-january-1865-17th-november-1928-1), So you can also check out the information on their official website here.

The whole misconception is due to only one wrong article from the Hindustan times and we are working to iron it out as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arjungoyal21 (talk • contribs) 00:46, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Arjungoyal21 (talk) 07:16, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Read, read, cite and then make an edit. Your personal verification is not a citable source. Lala Lajpat Rai was born in a Jain family, a religion he hated the most! Read this essay titled "Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah" written by LLR himself. Quoting LLR from the Page No. 517 "I was born in a Jain family. My grandfather had an all-covering faith in ahimsa." How can we refute his own words? Neurofreak (talk) 21:18, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Read page number 251 "I do not know how far the charge of unmanliness can be made good against the Jains. I hold no brief for them. By birth, I am a Vaishnavite (Sect in Hinduism), and was taught ahimsa in my childhood. I have derived much religious benefit from Jain religious works, as I have from scriptures of the other great faiths of the world. I owe much to the living company of the deceased philosopher Raja Chand Kavi4 who was a Jain by birth" He clearly states his family background and he is saying how inspired is he by the concept of Ahinsa and how it is an important part of Jainism.

Next read thing properly the Jain reference is like his grandfather was so ahinsavadi in that reference, he said that I am born in Jain family.

Read both paragraphs and you will understand that he is correctly contradicting himself. He can't be Vaishnavite and jain at same time.

Last, all the govt documents clearly state his family background being (Aggarwal Baniya/ Punjabi Hindu). Arjungoyal21 (talk) 08:02, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Nope, he didn't contradict himself. Already pointed out that here (..I am a Vaishnavite, and was taught ahimsa in my childhood..) you quoted a reply to LLR essay by MK Gandhi. Neurofreak (talk) 08:20, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

3O Response: "I have been in touch with his descendants [sic]" is not a reliable source suitable for use on Wikipedia. What matters is what is confirmed by reliable and independent published sources. That said, it seems there may be enough confusion over the matter here that religion should be omitted entirely (the preferable solution unless reliable sources explicitly indicate that the individual's religion had some substantial impact), or at the very least contextualized as ambiguous rather than put as some single value. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:41, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Religion had for sure substantial impact in subject's life. He was born in a Jain Family, but rejected its principles, clearly stated his disenchantment with his religious family, relatives (cited published book references). There are documented evidence of his critiques, letter exchange, extensive debate with Jain Leaders and in particular with MK Gandhi (cited his own essay). Later in his life, he became a prominent member of Arya Samaj and notably, the founding member of the Hindu Mahasabha, which suggests the importance of religion in his life. Neurofreak (talk) 08:54, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

References

About lala lajpat rai

I want this topic 2405:201:E049:1006:45E:DE4F:2197:17C3 (talk) 15:39, 21 February 2023 (UTC)