Talk:Ladies' Code

Edit request: TV show appearances

Rise was on MBC Star Diving Show Splash in episode 1.

Sojung and Rise were on SBS Incarnation in episode 28.

EunB and Sojung were on SBS 1000 Songs Challenge in episodes 263 and 264.

All members were on SBS Star Face Off (Chuseok Special).

All members were on Y-Star Gourmet Road in episode 148. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.96.112 (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 14:55, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 September 2013

Please change the link to the international forums (http://ladiescodeintl.b1.jcink.com) to http://ladiescode.tk/forum, because their site has been moved. Wohuifei (talk) 00:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Done Thank you! Dana boomer (talk) 21:50, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Pretty Pretty has re-peaked.

Pretty Pretty (the single) peaked at #14 on the Gaon Digital (overall) chart. Its peak in the singles section is therefore wrong.

http://gaonchart.co.kr/digital_chart/?nationGbn=T — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.175.154.186 (talk) 07:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

That's a peak of #20, not #14 71.104.231.7 (talk) 16:05, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

EunB's status as "former/past" member

Eun B should not be listed as a former or past member of Ladies' Code due to her death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 23:27, 2 September 2014 (UTC) Srsly fix this asap if someone can what the hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NekmoT (talk • contribs) 23:45, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

While her death is certainly a tragic event, EunB will still be listed under as a former member as she had been part of the group and should be noted. Rockysmile11 (talk) 00:16, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but the way it's written is... Well. It's really insensitive. "Reason for leaving: Died on September 3, 2014". Can you put something a bit more tactful, please? Also, please update the info about the car accident - Sojung was in critical condition, but has been stabilized. RiSe is still in critical condition and required emergency brain surgery. The cause of the accident was the vehicle losing a back wheel. 23.16.255.231 (talk) 01:56, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Another Wikipedia user added that table, but I can definitely re-word to suit it better. I will add that info once I find reliable sources to reference it too. Rockysmile11 (talk) 02:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you and I'm glad other people felt the same way. I know technically she had to be listed as such, but something about the wording seemed very indelicate and . I didn't want to seem like just a heartbroken over-sensitive fan. The edit is definitely better. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 05:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be more respectful to remove titles like current/former/past, let her name remain on the lest of members (again, removing the title, "current") and simple add "deceased" in parenthesis beside it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 05:13, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

What's the point of updating the article realtime? Yes, I came here because of the news but I just wanted to know who they are, not the current condition or "past member" status. What the hell? So do you, who updated the article, feel superior or some accomplishment? Repent! Just block this article from editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.95.24.145 (talk) 06:25, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I definitely agree with @76.95.24.145's comment. There shouldn't be a "current members" or "past members" on here. Until, the company says anything about their line-up and future activities it should be left as "members" even including EunB. Article is poorly written and is insensitive using words such as EunB's dead, died, death. Someone needs to edit it and use more respectful terms such as the passing of EunB, or EunB's passing. Anyways, back to the "members" just remove current and past and leave Eunbi in there with a † sign and a note saying she has passed. After that just disable all editing afterwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.209.120 (talk) 06:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I've edited the article to cut out the former members section (I have, however, added the inactive bracket next to EunB's name as similar to the members section with Kris from Exo). I've also re-tensed the introduction because it bothered me severely that they said Ladies' Code WAS... no, Ladies' Code still IS a Korean Pop group. Just a reminder that TENSE is important when editing this article. Tibbydibby (talk) 19:21, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Unofrunately, EunB dying does mean she is a former member, and should be listed as such. The problem is how to list it without just saying it bluntly like "reason for leaving: death," but as other groups (not K-pop ones necessarily) have lost members the same way there's no reason to keep her in the active members roster. Also, while I didn't see it on the version I edited for tense issues, unless Polaris Entertainment notes that Ladies' Code is done (whether it be because of this accident or whatever other reason), the group is still active, making it correct to keep the opening line as "Ladies' Code is a South Korean girl group [...]" and not "was a South Korean girl group". ハロー☆リンク-Hello Link- 20:06, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

September 6 2014 Signed by vintao_panda

I was just informed that Rise, member of Ladies code had past away today at 10:10. I would like to edit the page so that Rise has the cross next to her name. This death is very saddening and rise is now a former member but should still remain in our hearts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vintao panda (talk • contribs) 02:57, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Seems it is done. — Revi_complaint? 03:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Airbag didn't deploy or the rear wheel fell off?

I've read this news article saying this: 3일 레이디스코드 소속사 관계자에 따르면 사고 원인은 갑작스레 뒷바퀴가 빠졌기 때문이다. 하지만 운전석, 뒷좌석 어디에서도 에어백은 터지지 않았다. Translation: According to officials of Ladies' Code agency, the cause of the accident was due to the rear wheel fell off. But the airbag didn't deploy at the driver's seat, and the rear seat too. Somebody should research about this. ចេក ម៉ានុត (talk) 04:53, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Right after that sentense, they also said Police investigation is ongoing and they (agency) doesn't know details. So we need to wait for Police. (Also, for Chosun.com articles, archive it on http://archive.org, because chosun.com is known to restrict article to paid user only after 7 days of publish. (so, here's the archive.org page.)) — Revi_complaint? 05:15, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

So I've found this article today, and it says that the cause is the rear wheel (made by Starex) fell off.ចេក ម៉ានុត (talk) 05:28, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2014

| current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny | past_members = EunB †
Rise †

Suggesting a change for this because Eunbi and Rise are not past members, they are deceased but will forever be part of the group. Suggesting to change the above to the below.

| current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny
EunB †
Rise †

T.taemaaaan (talk) 21:35, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree completely, at the time of their deaths they were still members of Ladies' Code and should not be considered otherwise. Ralphbsmart (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

It should be left as is. Other groups have lost members to death and they are also marked as former members even on groups that are still active. ハロー☆リンク-Hello Link- 23:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Numerous groups have had members die, and these are all included in the "past members" section. The only change needed is the removal of the two † symbols, as Template:Infobox musical artist states the under both current members and past members "no other notation than names" - Arjayay (talk) 07:15, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2014

{{Infobox musical artist | name = Ladies' Code
레이디스 코드 | image = 나쁜여자 레이디스코드 (LADIES' CODE) 다문화 가정 돕기 희망콘서트 용산 아이파크몰 이벤트광장.jpg | caption = Ladies' Code in November 2013. From left to right: Sojung, Rise, Ashley, EunB and Zuny. | image_size = | landscape = yes | background = group_or_band | origin = Seoul, South Korea | genre = K-pop | years_active = 2013–present | label = Polaris Entertainment | associated_acts = | current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny EunB (deceased)
Rise (deceased) EunB
Rise | website = http://ladiescode.com Yoonaeunah (talk) 10:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I cannot understand what is going ot be changed here. — Revi_complaint? 11:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done please see the post above, which explains about members, ex members and that there shall be no additional information. - Arjayay (talk) 11:30, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

"Past Member" versus "Member"

I believe it is inappropriate to list EunB and RiSe as "Past Members". In today's society many groups continue to list as members those who long ago passed away. In fact, it is common for various social groups to list their favorite people as members forever. In any event, it is the group itself that defines their own membership.

The members of Ladies Code are bound by many bonds, not the least of those, grief. They are of the same age group, same industry group, same entertainment group, same likes and dislikes. To say that upon death all of these bonds are now broken is not reasonable. To say that someone is automatically ostracized from a group because they pass away is beyond any reasonable jurisdiction of those who are not the decision makers of that group, i.e. the members themselves. In other words, the decision of who is a member belongs solely that of the group itself.

To split the membership of Ladies Code, especially as has been done in the article, does not have any source reference that I can find. Polaris Entertainment has given no indication that the group has been changed. Their website still shows all “members” as “members”. No one has been summarily dropped. Their Facebook also shows all “members” as “members”. I can’t imagine that will ever change.

In the future, as their lives settle down, perhaps the facts will change, but it should not be written now in Wikipedia. The membership has not changed. Even if the remaining members go on to make a comeback, it is their decision to list their beloved friends as “past members,” and not anyone else.

I believe it is appropriate to show that EunB and RiSe have passed away. But that should be done in the body of the article, not in the Member’s box. As currently shown, the Member's box is a glaring failure in etiquette.

I understand that various guidelines have been established to ensure a measure of uniformity in the Wikipedia universe, but as far as I can see in my review, these guidelines do not dictate such an arbitrary judgment in the event of a death of a current business/social/k-pop group. Indeed, if by some interpretation Wikipedia guidelines do call for such action, those guidelines should be changed.

I am proud of Wikipedia, but I believe that the decision making around this topic exceeds the bounds of appropriate behavior. This is not meant as a personal attack on anyone, just my belief of what is acceptable in today’s global society.

REQUEST: Please change the membership of Ladies Codes to show only “Members” and not “Past Members.” If this cannot be done then I request that this be taken to arbitration. Enkelisiipi (talk) 06:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

This has been discussed in the past, at Template talk:Infobox musical artist - as in this example from the archives (there are others in the archives if you look) and although not discussed at length, the consensus seems to be against you.
Without wishing to be brutal, unfortunately, these two girls are dead, and cannot, therefore, be a "member" of anything. If the remaining members decide to disband the group, they are all "past members", and there is no problem; but what happens if they continue performing? our list of "current members" would include two people who cannot appear, so is clearly incorrect; and if the remaining members sign up new members, does someone going to see the group, expect to see two more people than are on stage?
To take a parallel example - Lynyrd Skynyrd lost three members in a plane crash, and four more former members of the band have also died - We don't list all 7 of these with the 7 "current members" making it look like the band currently has 14 members. I don't know of any Wikipedia article that includes dead artists in the "current members" list; perhaps you can point some out?
Wikipedia needs to be consistent in its approach, across all articles, not have one rule for one article and another rule for another. So if you want to take this to arbitration, I think you need to canvass opinions at Template talk:Infobox musical artist before doing so. - Arjayay (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the reference to the Template talk:Infobox musical artist page. Unfortunately the page listed as “Current Talk Page” says that discussion is closed so I’m not sure how to address this topic.

Even if this is a current policy it is still inappropriate. If a policy causes harm it is wrong. If it is wrong it should be changed. Perhaps the answer is to put a moratorium on inventing history for a two year period in the event of an artist’s death. Perhaps it would be to wait for an announcement from the group itself that the group now considers its membership changed. Perhaps a mixture of these two concepts or something else.

Whatever the answer is, it is not to gleefully jump into the documented history of a group within hours of a tragic event and say, “Oh ho! You are now a *past* member.” The pain and suffering such an action can cause to the family members, loved ones and other members of such a group is uncalled for and totally unnecessary. It is especially callous to do so to members of an Korean/Asian group who are extremely sensitive to such kinds of family-like relationships.

Your comment, “Without wishing to be brutal, unfortunately, these two girls are dead, and cannot, therefore, be a "member" of anything,” is also incorrect. People who have passed away often remain on the member lists of all kinds of social and historical groups. For example, such lists include Presidents of the United States, Famous Generals, Wikipedia Authors, and more.

In your citation regarding Lynyrd Skynyrd, I noticed the following sentence: “Out of respect for the deceased (and at the request of Teresa Gaines, Steve's widow), MCA Records withdrew the original cover and replaced it with a similar image of the band against a simple black background.”

It is this kind of respect that I am referring to. It is inappropriate to declare a change in the status of a young lady who meets a tragic end without such change being announced by the group itself. Making the change arbitrarily is to invent history, not record it.

I would appreciate knowing how to bring this issue up to the Template talk:Infobox musical artist or an Arbitration Board. Enkelisiipi (talk) 10:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

If you want the consensus to be reconsidered, you need to start a new topic at Template talk:Infobox musical artist. Until then please stop changing the infobox. Before you knew the consensus, your changes were an innocent mistake, but now you do know it, to make changes in contradiction to it, is vandalism.
Please also note that as stated at Template:Infobox musical artist "For multiple members joining concurrently (such as the formation of the band), list them according to alphabetical order" not according to date of birth. - Arjayay (talk) 12:27, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

This is the type of fanboyism that is not needed here. Your feelings do not change the fact that they are no longer members as they have passed away. Yes, it was tragic. But you can't change fact. Should I declare Abraham Lincoln President of the United States. I mean, he didn't quit. He was killed. He should be president forever. Am I right?Correctron (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

You are not right Correctron – on many levels.

First, your use of the term fanboyism is inappropriate and constitutes a personal attack. I believe such attacks are discouraged between Wikipedia contributors. Second, to be clear, I was not even aware of the girl group Ladies’ Code until I read about the accident and came to Wikipedia to find out more about the group.

At that time I found that someone had changed the status of EunB and Rise to that of “Former Members.” This was shocking to me as such a premature change is contrary to common principles of etiquette in the Korean Culture.

In Asia in general, and especially in Korea, ties between family groups are incredibly strong. These ties often extend across many levels of societal boundaries; one of those being within music groups as those bonds often become more family like than westerners understand. In Korea, for example, families continue to revere their ancestors even after death. Many go so far as to make annual visits to the resting place of their ancestor on their “death anniversary” to pay homage and offer gifts of food and drink. In accordance with Confucian theory, through ancestor worship, parents continue to teach their own children filial piety. Departed family members are not “Past Members” of the family any more than EunB and Rise are “Past Members” of their family-like group.

Perhaps such a change is appropriate for an American Pop group where our culture is not so rooted in Asian tradition but more on the strength of the individual.

After several tries to make this point I have concluded that too many Wikipedia authors have become immune to considerations outside their own experience and instead cling to their own inbred standard “templates” that are far removed from the world’s vast mix of cultural morays. For the past sixty plus years I have traveled around the world many times. One thing I have learned is that the only “fixed rule” that applies to all cultures is “respect”.

In summary, in would be much more appropriate to leave the status of EunB and Rise as “Members” for at least three years or until someone within the group or its management agency state otherwise. I believe that to leave the article as it is now written shows a lack of respect for international mores. I am regretful that Wikipedia as its own group cannot realize this.Enkelisiipi (talk) 18:16, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

This is not Korea. This is English wikipedia. It is about facts not feelings. The FACT is that they are no longer members.Correctron (talk) 23:21, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Removed some awards

Per previous consensus, I removed non-notable, fan-run awards. Shinyang-i (talk) 23:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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RiSe and EunB

First of all, I recieved a message saying i would be blocked if I put that Ashley was leader again, without a source. I got it from Weekly Idol. However, some info im getting blocked for is in your articles. I put that YEri joined Red Velvet in 2015, and it was removed, despite it being said somewhere else in the article. Please read the whole article before removing my edits. If im wrong, my apologies.

Also, I think yo u should put RiSe and EunB under current members. Ive been a big Ladies Code fan since their debut, and I think that putting them under past would be disrespectful. They didnt leave or sue Polaris or get forced out. I recommend putting them under current with croseese by their names, like with Ahn Sojin (DSP Entertainment article and KARA Project Article.) BEcause just because their bodies are gone, does not mean their spirit is gone. Their spirits live on through Soojyun, Zuni and Ashley, and the two would give anything to be with the group today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 00:25, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

This has been raised several times and the answer is the same - RiSe and EunB are past members, please see the discussions above. This is not "disrespectful", which is just your PoV in any case, it is simply a matter of fact; Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and is NOTCENSORED, it just states facts. Furthermore, we only put names in the members lists - nothing else, years of membership, instruments, deceased, RIP or crosses should never be included. - Arjayay (talk) 13:58, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

So its ok to put a cross by Ahn Sojins name, and the years Van of Broken Valentine was active, but it's not ok to honor these two? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 17:01, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

No, the fact that some people have broken the guidelines, is no reason for more people to do the same - some people commit murder, that does not mean we can all go around doing it: please see WP:OTHERSTUFF. If there are infringements they should be corrected - Arjayay (talk) 16:43, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Still just think about it.If a very close friend of yours died today. Would that mean they aren't your friend anymore? And besides, I don't know if anyone here knows this, but EunB and RiSe grew up in Christian families. I researched extensively on each member. And even though EunB and RiSe aren't with us anymore, as long as Ashley, Sojung, and Zuni are still here, and the pair's families as well, I'd say they are very much alive. I get that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, but we aren't asking you to remove the article about the accident or any mention of it. We just want them listed as current, with crosses next to their names to show that they will continue to live on, as long as the fans, the families, and the three members remain alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

"I hope that this song would be able to touch Rise-unnie and EunB-unnie. We, Ladies’ Code, are FOREVER 5 MEMBERS, so please watch over us and I hope that you will not forget."-Lee Sojung — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 22:00, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

The deceased members will never be re-added to the "current members" section in the infobox since this is against rules and logic. Just get over this already, its been over 2 years, you can "honor" them by buying their album and not by adding crosses to the infobox. Snowflake91 (talk) 23:00, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Well then, lets discuss dis with wikipedia: If a member died after leaving the group or after disbandment (example: John Lennon of The Beatles,) they will stick to current standards. But if they died while still in the group, they remain in current members, but will have a cross by their names, to show they are deceased. Bring this up to them, plz? Dont just think about standards, but thnk about what the three members would say if they were in this convo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 01:29, 4 March 2017‎ (UTC)

No current band does this. Not in Template:Infobox musical artist - not in any known bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers or Kiss (band). Wikipedia uses common sense - not some imaginary emotional response. Evaders99 (talk) 05:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

This isnt an imaginary emotional response. The cross symbol was created as a sign of rememberane for the deceased. If EunB and RiSe left before they died, I would fully agree on keeping them past members. But they didnt drop out, they didnt file lawsuits, and they werent forced out. They died while members. And like Sojung said, they will forever be 5. LEts honour her wishes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.35.70 (talk) 15:02, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

As stated very clearly above:- "The deceased members will never be re-added to the "current members" section in the infobox since this is against rules and logic. Just get over this already"
There is nothing to discuss - Arjayay (talk) 17:14, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

If they are current members, I can see them perform or listen to them on tracks. Oh wait... LordAtlas (talk) 06:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

First of all, I believe that comment was very offensive and uneccaseary. 2nd, I agree with this person. the cross is not fantasy or anything. What he's saying is he wants them current, because they never officially left the group in any way. BUt the cross is to symbolize that they died. An like he said, Sojung and the members said they are forever 5 members. she didnt say 3. Lets think more about THEM, considering this is about them to begin with.47.32.128.57 (talk) 03:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

For the millionth time, Wikipedia is NOT a memorial page, rules are clear here, furhter discuission about the issue is not needed...offensive or not, they are not "forever 5 members", currently there are 3 members in the group, 2 members are former members of the group (and if they died, gets kicked out, have voluntary quit, ran out of contract etc., is not important in the infobox). Snowflake91 (talk) 10:23, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

I was wondering if you all think this article should be semi-protected76.174.35.70 (talk) 17:02, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I dont think so, there is no much vandalism here, not more than on other pages. Snowflake91 (talk) 17:07, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Almost certainly would be refused as there has only been one "vandal" in the last month - Arjayay (talk) 17:11, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

good point76.174.35.70 (talk) 01:10, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Additional TV Apperances

Hello! First off, I am brand new to wikipedia so please educate me if I've made any mistakes. I tried to gather information before posting so I hope this is all okay. Thank you!!!

I have some information on more of Ladies Code's TV appearances, that I hope could be added to the page.

Since Sojung's predebut appearance on The Voice is here, should we also add Rise on MBC We Got Married in 2012? It's listed on her personal page. She also appeared on Splash, which is also only on her personal wiki page.

2013, September, 10: The entire group was on Y-Star Gourmet Road episode 148. The program's youtube channel uploaded the episode here.

2013, October, 16: The entire group was on MBC Weekly Idol episode 117. The full episode has been uploaded here, and it's also listed on the list of episodes on the Weekly Idol wikipedia page.

2013, November, 1: The entire group performed at the 50th Grand Bell Awards, article here.

2014, September, 4: The entire group was on the Secret Box segment of Arirang Pops in Seoul, which Arirang uploaded here.

2016, October, 17: Sojung, Zuny and Ashley were interviewed on Arirang Pops in Seoul, which Arirang uploaded here.

2016, December, 2: Sojung had a special stage on KBS Music Bank with Mamamoo's Hwasa. KBS uploaded their performance here.

2017, January, 21: Sojung, Zuny, and Ashley performed on KBS Immortal Songs 2 episode 285, the New Years special. Rise and EunB appear in photos. It's listed on the Immortal Songs 2 wikipedia page, and KBS uploaded their performance here.

That's all I have! Additionally, should Sojung get her own personal page? She has debuted as a soloist and she has a lot of variety appearances on her own. I think it would be great! Thank you! Kwonrise (talk) 06:34, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi, this has been discussed multiple times on many article talk pages and it has been agreed that guesting on variety shows is not notable enough for wiki. If they were a cast member and appeared on every single episode it would be included but appearing on a one off basis is not seen as important. As an example, imagine including every single guest appearance/performance made by an western pop group (Little Mix/Fifth Harmony/One Direction etc.) being included in the filmog section it is just not notable, I hope you understand. Abdotorg (talk) 12:46, 14 May 2017 (UTC)