Talk:Ko-Ko

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was moved to Ko-Ko. Aervanath (talk) 20:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Koko (Parker) → Ko-Ko — The correct name for the song. — Jafeluv (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC) See evidence below. — Jafeluv (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support as nominator. The Savoy Records catagog lists the song as "Ko-Ko". So does the record cover. Jafeluv (talk) 07:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose multiple values for "Ko-Ko" exist at the dab page that Ko-Ko currently points to. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 11:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- This one is primary topic—and therefore needs no extra qualifier for disambiguation—for two reasons. Firstly, the dab page lists a lot of articles titled "Koko" or "KOKO", but neither of the uses for "Ko-Ko" has an article yet. Secondly, this song, as an often recorded jazz standard, will probably be the one readers will most often be looking for even if the other articles are created (the only other uses are a Duke Ellington composition and a character from The Mikado). In addition, even if it's decided that this article is not primary topic for the name "Ko-Ko" (which should only be possible if there's an existing article titled "Ko-Ko"), the current article name is still wrong because 1) the disambiguation qualifier "Parker" violates the naming standards for music (it should be Koko (composition) or Koko (song), since there's no other song/composition article by that name, and if there were it should be Koko (Charlie Parker composition) or Koko (Charlie Parker song)), and 2) as I pointed out just above, the name of the song is not "Koko". In my opinion, the article will have to be moved in any case, either to Ko-Ko or to something else. Jafeluv (talk) 13:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I would say that the character from The Mikado is primary usage. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 14:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The correct name of the song does appear to be "Ko-Ko" (although "Koko" is an alternative spelling[1]) and no other article is using that precise title. The Mikado character probably would be primary usage if it had an article, but it doesn't. There should, however, be a hatnote directing readers to Koko to avoid confusion. Station1 (talk) 06:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Added hatnote. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

I have a suggestion. If people really feel that the Mikado character would be primary usage for the term, how about this: Make Ko-Ko a redirect to The Mikado, with a hatnote saying "Ko-Ko redirects here. For other uses, see Koko (disambiguation)". Then, move this page to Ko-Ko (composition). This way, the character gets primary usage and the composition is moved to its correct name. Jafeluv (talk) 09:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That's one way to do it but I don't think it's really necessary. It's unlikely the Mikado character would ever have its own separate article, and I think it's fairly unlikely too many people will be searching for or linking directly to the character Ko-Ko as opposed to The Mikado. Plus it adds an ugly second hatnote to The Mikado of use to only a few people. (Currently, Ko-Ko as a redirect has no bad incoming links and is getting only around 100 hits per month, as opposed to 17,000-25,000 for The Mikado.) I think it's better to have this article at "Ko-Ko" with a hatnote along the lines of "For the operatic character, see The Mikado. For other uses, see Koko." Station1 (talk) 20:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

ellington's "koko"

Does anyone know if it's just a coincidence that Duke Ellington was recording a song called "Koko" at least as early as 1940? Are the two songs related? They sound different, but all I hear in the Parker and other versions is wild soloing and I can't make out the tune. The Duke Ellington version sounds distinctly like a Duke Ellington composition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.235.17 (talk) 03:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ko-Ko by Charlie Parker

There should be little doubt about who plays trumpet on this track as Miles Davis, himself, states at the beginning of chapter 4 of his autobiography ('Miles The Autobiography', with Quincy Troupe, pub. 1989 Simon & Schuster) that Dizzy Gillespie plays trumpet on that and several other fast tempo tracks on the same album ('Charlie Parker's Reboppers') because he, Davis, did not think he "was ready" to play "tunes at the tempo of 'Cherokee' (Ko-Ko)". He also, in the same passage, gives some clues as to who plays piano on that and other tracks. This information - from the 'horse's mouth', so to speak - should scotch most of the 'rumors' quoted in this article. [User:Alan Roberton|Alan Roberton]] (talk) 12:22, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Ko-Ko" or "Ko Ko" ?

"Ko-Ko" or "Ko Ko" ? The 2009 discussion above shows that Savoy eventually, and I presume consistently, spelled it with a hyphen. In my personal cataloging, I list songs the way they were spelled on the original release. And the label for Savoy 597 shows it spelled with a space instead of a hyphen.

Well, I don't think anyone's going to let me change the name of the article. However, there are a couple of sentences in the article that don't reflect the article name of "Ko-Ko".

The first sentence says '"Ko Ko" (also spelled "Ko-Ko" or, less frequently, "KoKo") is a 1945 bebop recording composed by Charlie Parker.' To be consistent, I'll change it to '"Ko-Ko" (also spelled "Ko Ko" or, less frequently, "KoKo") is a 1945 bebop recording composed by Charlie Parker.'

Another sentence says, 'Duke Ellington also wrote and recorded an unrelated song entitled "Ko-Ko" (note the hyphen) in 1940 at Victor's studios in Chicago.' 'note the hyphen' would make sense if you were pointing out how the names were different, but since the names are now the same I will take that phrase out. PatConolly (talk) 03:01, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]