Talk:Kite experiment

Busted is wrong

The Mythbusters "busted" conclusion is wrong. If it was wet, Franklin's kite string would have conducted small amounts of electricity and functioned like a long-wire radio antenna. Currents would have been induced in the kite string by Hertzian waves generated by lightning in the storm. The kite string didn't "collect" static electricity from the air. Instead, Franklin's experiment functioned like a very crude radio wave detector. The radio waves detected were the same as the noise heard in AM radio broadcast channels during electrical storms. Franklin claimed to have actually run the experiment and I see no reason to dispute his claim. Franklin got electricity out of the air but not by the mechanism everybody assumes. Virgil H. Soule (talk) 02:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the Mythbusters episode doesn't "bust" the "myth" that Franklin flew the kite-- the myth that it "busts" is the myth that lightning actually struck the kite. But Franklin never claimed the kite was actually struck by lightning!

I was struck by the lack of references to the original sources in this article, and have added some more citations to help direct people to early accounts. Geoffrey.landis (talk) 16:15, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

I've added the complete text of the sources below. Thomas Peardew (talk) 08:12, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Experimental method - repeatability

I am not sufficiently science-minded myself to be able to assert this with total confidence, but I had always supposed that the essence of the scientific method was that it lent itself to experimental confirmation, and that the experiments should not just be confirmatory but repeatable too. See this, for example: https://www.livescience.com/20896-science-scientific-method.html

Whether or not in fact Franklin flew his kite in thundery weather we will probably never know. However I haven't been able to find any examples of the experiment being successfully repeated, though it is widely known about, and it is described with quite a lot of circumstantial detail by Priestley and presumably in its 1752 origin by Franklin too. Has anyone successfully charged-up a capacitor using a kite and a hemp string (plus silk) of the type described by Franklin?Thomas Peardew (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

• Since writing the note above dated 1 February, I've read Tom Tucker's Bolt of Fate, referred to in the wiki page. Tucker - a sceptic - lists six other contemporary experimenters who flew electrical kites, including one, Jacques de Romas, who claimed to have thought of the idea before Franklin. Clearly other people did follow Franklin's suggestion, though Franklin's friend Joseph Priestley had a kite constructed and decided not to fly it "for fear of being killed". Tucker also cites a 1759 letter from Petrus Musschenbroek (Pieter van Musschenbroek) to Franklin, in which he urges Franklin to repeat the experiment many times, noting the year, month, day time and location, together with the atmospheric conditions. Franklin doesn't appear to have replied to this. Experimental proof that lightning was electric would nowadays require a control experiment: flying a similar kite in varying conditions that did not include lightning. For those interested in the subject I can strongly recommend Tucker's book: it is well-researched and well worth reading. Thomas Peardew (talk) 17:05, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Franklin's and Priestley's own accounts

These two accounts of the Kite Experiment are taken from the NHPRC. They represent the only closely contemporary written descriptions of the experiment. It is worth noting that in later versions of Franklin's account, he omits the words "which any one may try" from the first paragraph.

Franklin's account, from the Pennsylvania Gazette, 19 October 1752

As frequent Mention is made in the News Papers from Europe, of the Success of the Philadelphia Experiment for drawing the Electric Fire from Clouds by Means of pointed Rods of Iron erected on high Buildings, &c. it may be agreeable to the Curious to be inform’d, that the same Experiment has succeeded in Philadelphia, tho’ made in a different and more easy Manner, which any one may try, as follows.

Make a small Cross of two light Strips of Cedar, the Arms so long as to reach to the four Corners of a large thin Silk Handkerchief when extended; tie the Corners of the Handkerchief to the Extremities of the Cross, so you have the Body of a Kite; which being properly accommodated with a Tail, Loop and String, will rise in the Air, like those made of Paper; but this being of Silk is fitter to bear the Wet and Wind of a Thunder Gust without tearing. To the Top of the upright Stick of the Cross is to be fixed a very sharp pointed Wire, rising a Foot or more above the Wood. To the End of the Twine, next the Hand, is to be tied a silk Ribbon, and where the Twine and the silk join, a Key may be fastened. This Kite is to be raised when a Thunder Gust appears to be coming on, and the Person who holds the String must stand within a Door, or Window, or under some Cover, so that the Silk Ribbon may not be wet; and Care must be taken that the Twine does not touch the Frame of the Door or Window. As soon as any of the Thunder Clouds come over the Kite, the pointed Wire will draw the Electric Fire from them, and the Kite, with all the Twine, will be electrified, and the loose Filaments of the Twine will stand out every Way, and be attracted by an approaching Finger. And when the Rain has wet the Kite and Twine, so that it can conduct the Electric Fire freely, you will find it stream out plentifully from the Key on the Approach of your Knuckle. At this Key the Phial may be charg’d; and from Electric Fire thus obtain’d, Spirits may be kindled, and all the other Electric Experiments be perform’d, which are usually done by the Help of a rubbed Glass Globe or Tube; and thereby the Sameness of the Electric Matter with that of Lightning compleatly demonstrated.

Priestley's account, from the 1767 edition of his History of Electricity.

To demonstrate, in the completest manner possible, the sameness of the electric fluid with the matter of lightning, Dr. Franklin, astonishing as it must have appeared, contrived actually to bring lightning from the heavens, by means of an electrical kite, which he raised when a storm of thunder was perceived to be coming on. This kite had a pointed wire fixed upon it, by which it drew the lightning from the clouds. This lightning descended by the hempen string, and was received by a key tied to the extremity of it; that part of the string which was held in the hand being of silk, that the electric virtue might stop when it came to the key. He found that the string would conduct electricity even when nearly dry, but that when it was wet, it would conduct it quite freely; so that it would stream out plentifully from the key, at the approach of a person’s finger.

At this key he charged phials, and from electric fire thus obtained, he kindled spirits, and performed all other electrical experiments which are usually exhibited by an excited globe or tube.

As every circumstance relating to so capital a discovery as this (the greatest, perhaps, that has been made in the whole compass of philosophy, since the time of Sir Isaac Newton) cannot but give pleasure to all my readers, I shall endeavour to gratify them with the communication of a few particulars which I have from the best authority.

The Doctor, after having published his method of verifying his hypothesis concerning the sameness of electricity with the matter of lightning, was waiting for the erection of a spire in Philadelphia to carry his views into execution; not imagining that a pointed rod, of a moderate height, could answer the purpose; when it occurred to him, that, by means of a common kite, he could have a readier and better access to the regions of thunder than by any spire whatever. Preparing, therefore, a large silk handkerchief, and two cross sticks, of a proper length, on which to extend it; he took the opportunity of the first approaching thunder storm to take a walk into a field, in which there was a shed convenient for his purpose. But dreading the ridicule which too commonly attends unsuccessful attempts in science, he communicated his intended experiment to no body but his son, who assisted him in raising the kite.

The kite being raised, a considerable time elapsed before there was any appearance of its being electrified. One very promising cloud had passed over it without any effect; when, at length, just as he was beginning to despair of his contrivance, he observed some loose threads of the hempen string to stand erect, and to avoid one another, just as if they had been suspended on a common conductor. Struck with this promising appearance, he immediately presented his knucle to the key, and (let the reader judge of the exquisite pleasure he must have felt at that moment) the discovery was complete. He perceived a very evident electric spark. Others succeeded, even before the string was wet, so as to put the matter past all dispute, and when the rain had wet the string, he collected electric fire very copiously. This happened in June 1752, a month after the electricians in France had verified the same theory, but before he heard of any thing they had done.

I thought editors might find it helpful to have the complete texts to hand. Thomas Peardew (talk) 08:08, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Was it true?

There are many myths about Benjamin Franklin. Some say he tried to kill a turkey.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C5:C180:4750:100E:5B3F:A0A4:8F12 (talk) 23:30, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I have never heard of him trying to kill a turkey.Collinanderson (talk) 23:24, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

location

On the front of St. Stephen's Church, on 10th St. in Philadelphia, is a plaque claiming the church was built on the site where Franklin conducted his kite experiment. The church was built in 1823. Elsquared67 (talk) 05:13, 5 May 2024 (UTC)