Talk:Karaka (tree)

Dangerously misleading

Argh! Ok, this is dangerously misleading: "If soaked in salt water, boiled or roasted, the seeds become edible." If someone tried just roasting them, they'd kill themselves. Or perhaps I exaggerate, they might just get muscle contractions bad enough to break their own bones, or tear their own muscles if they didn't get medical treatment fast enough. You really wouldn't need to eat much. If they're soaked, and boiled then roasted - yeah, they might be ok, but it's a very long process. Ummm. Reference, here: http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/7109/karaka.htm Or in... books. Lots of books. Or by googling karaka poisoning and getting lovely old historical accounts: http://rsnz.natlib.govt.nz/volume/rsnz_04/rsnz_04_00_002360.html

Just. I'd hate for someone to read the above line and think that they're only poisonous like acorns (ie, you soak them to get the bitter-tannin out, which is a magnitude less poisonous than karakin), and try boiling them up or something. o_O

- A. Nonymous, Wellington, New Zealand —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.154.238.36 (talk) 08:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

You're right, it was dangerously misleading. Rewritten somewhat, and a link to a 19th century source with a vivid description of the symptoms of poisoning. Kahuroa 09:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Unverified

The sentence "In modern-day New Zealand, no part of the plant or its fruit is eaten." is not correct. I can only offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary, but would suggest that this statement either needs to be verified or removed? Te Irirangi (talk) 06:30, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, done. Kahuroa (talk) 07:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Karakin

The description as an alkaloid is correct only in the very broadest sense: karakin does contain nitrogen atoms, but in nitro rather than amine form. It's some number of molecules of 3-nitropropanoic acid, the actual toxin, with an ester linkage to a glucose molecule. This might be more useful information in a page on karakin, admittedly.

The most complete information I have is from an MSc thesis but there are other published sources with fewer details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tslumley (talk • contribs) 04:47, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Karaka (tree)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Alexeyevitch (talk · contribs) 09:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Esculenta (talk · contribs) 18:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I'll do this review. I'll have comments here within a few days. Esculenta (talk) 18:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. This is my first attempt at a flora-related article. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 20:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Here's my first set of comments with suggestions for more info to include, and prose tweaks. Esculenta (talk) 16:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you. I was having difficulties trying to find information about "Taxonomy", is there a paticular source you would recommend using here? I will begin to work thru your comments today. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 21:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I think POWO (here) is recommended as an authoritative taxonomy source for this type of plant, and you can use the {{Cite POWO}} template to cite it. The protologue description can be found here. Esculenta (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Good progress has been made so far. I will be back soon to complete the remaining. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 12:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC) (back now)

Lead

• "in the Corynocarpaceae family." -> "in the family Corynocarpaceae." ("family" is the taxonomic rank descriptor and "Corynocarpaceae" is its specific identifier)
  •  Done
• "Its leaves are coriaceous" suggest "leathery" to avoid jargon in the lead
  •  Done
• because this is a New Zealand endemic, conversions for metric units aren't strictly required. If you do use them, ensure that the sig. fig. output is logical. For example, "15–30 cm (5.9–11.8 in) long" doesn't make sense as one of the output figure has more sig figs than the input (which looks likes its meant to be approximate anyway); check for other instances of this throughout
• "Considered a taonga (cultural treasure) amongst the Māori and Moriori peoples." incomplete sentence
  •  Fixed
• link exoplanet
  •  Done

Description

• link canopy
  •  Done
• "The largest trunk ever measured was 3 m (9.8 ft)." largest trunk diameter?
  •  Done
• "Its leaves are coriaceous" gloss and/or plantgloss link
  •  Fixed
• "From August to November, large clusters of karaka produces stout, erect panicles of tiny flowers, greenish-yellow in colour and less than 0.5 cm (0.20 in) in diameter." this confuses me; I don't get the "clusters of karaka" part; do the trees have to be clustered to produce flowers? Can a single tree not do this? Might this be a clearer way to express this: "From August to November, karaka produces large, stout, erect panicles of tiny greenish-yellow flowers, each less than 0.5 cm (0.20 in) in diameter."
  •  Done
• "The fruit it produces is 30–40 mm (1.2–1.6 in) in length, with pale yellow–orange coloured flesh,[3][4] it also contains a single poisonous seed." comma splice
  •  Fixed
• the description seems lacking. The information there is somewhat scattered and repetitive (e.g., flowering period is mentioned twice), and there's no clear organization of features (e.g., separating vegetative from reproductive characteristics). There's some other things I might expect to see mentioned in a description about a tree:

• bark description
  •  Done
• leaf arrangement (alternate, opposite, etc.)
• leaf shape, margins, venation

•  Done

• leaf petiole description

•  Done

• crown shape/spread
• branch characteristics beyond just "erect spreading"
• root system description
• detailed flower morphology (beyond just size and color)
• fruit shape (not just length)
  •  Done
• seed description beyond just "poisonous"
  •  Done

• also there's missing developmental information:

• growth rate
  •  Done
• juvenile form description
• seasonal changes (if any) in appearance
• longevity
  •  Done
• age at first flowering

• missing technical details:

• wood characteristics
• more specific habitat preferences within its range
• soil preferences
  •  Done
• shade tolerance
  •  Done
• detailed phenology (timing of leaf flush, etc.)
• pollination mechanism
• more detail about seed dispersal mechanisms

• comparative information: How to distinguish it from similar species
• of course, not all of these details would be required for a GA-level presentation of a tree to meet the "broad coverage" criterion, but perhaps a few of these details could be included?
  • I have made it more comprehensive now. Let me know if organization in this section needs any improvements.

Taxonomy

• much of what's currently in this section would be more relevant at the genus page. What's missing from this section is mention of who first discovered and named this species, and when, with bonus points for finding (and linking) the original publication. Even more bonus for saying a few words about what these guys originally said about their new species.
  •  Done. I can provide a link to the text but I'm not sure if it's usual in plant articles to add an external link to Latin text.

Distribution

• the Hawaii information is scattered and repetitive across two paragraphs
  •  Fixed
• is there a reported altitudinal range for this tree?
  •  Done
• is the population density different in different regions?
  •  Done
• are there specific ecological communities it's typically found in?
• any details on why it's considered invasive in Hawaii, e.g. evidence of replacing native plants?
  •  Done
• "It is generally accepted among sources that prior to Polynesian arrival of New Zealand, karaka were possibly limited to the northern North Island, even though it is now found on many offshore islands and the northern South Island." suggest "Sources generally agree that before Polynesian arrival in New Zealand, karaka was likely limited to the northern North Island, despite its current range across offshore islands and the northern South Island."
  •  Done

Ecology

• "Such as the kererū (Hemiphaga novaeseelandiae) and the Chatham Islands pigeon or parea (Hemiphaga chathamensis) which are the only are the only extant bird species with a gape large enough to consume the fruits of karaka." incomplete sentence
  •  Fixed
• the unlink term "endocarp" is suddenly introduced in this section (probably would have been better to first hear about in in description section)
• any details about pollination ecology?
• any commonly associated parasitic plants or epiphytes? understory species associations?
• any research been done with regards to regeneration ecology for this species?
• any impact on seed dispersal by different animals?
• any defensive mechanisms against herbivores
• "Centuries ago the fruits of the karaka would have been consumed by the extinct moa and possibly other large birds." suggest "The extinct moa and other large birds likely consumed karaka fruits centuries ago."
  •  Done

Relationship with humans

• "Karaka is common in cultivation and widely available for sale both in New Zealand and elsewhere in the world" is there any cultivation info available? Is it difficult to grow?
• "It was one of the most grown food crops by pre-European Māori (alongside kūmara and aruhe),[23][24] they ate the drupe and seed after a long detoxification process." comma splice
  •  Fixed
• The seeds would be placed in open-weave traditonal baskets (kete), washed in water to remove the outer pulp, afterwards baked and sun dried, a process that would remove toxicity from the seeds." run-on sentence and typo
  •  Fixed
• "The seeds are very poisonous" how poisonous? what's the specific poison? How many do I have to eat to reach LD₅₀?
  •  Partly done
• "Karaka wood is also known to be used in constructing canoes (waka)." -> "Karaka wood is used in constructing canoes (waka)."
  •  Done
• "On the Chatham Islands, karaka has played a distinguished role in the history of Moriori people, the bark of these trees has been used for making dendroglyphs." comma splice
  •  Fixed
• "Carvings embedded on to karaka trees are known in the Moriori language are known as rākau momori, which are usually depicting Moriori ancestors are considered internationally significant and unique to their culture." suggest "Carvings on karaka trees, known as rākau momori in the Moriori language, typically depict Moriori ancestors and are considered internationally significant and unique to their culture."
  •  Done
• "Karaka has also been recognised on New Zealand Post stamps with its penny postage stamps in 1967 depicting an image of karaka in the centre of the stamp." suggest "New Zealand Post recognised karaka in 1967 by featuring it on penny postage stamps."
  •  Done
• "A 2000 report by the Department of Conservation indicated the existence of 147 karaka trees with dendroglyphs on the Chatham Islands, though some may not have been authentically Moriori." suggest "A 2000 Department of Conservation report documented 147 karaka trees with dendroglyphs on the Chatham Islands, though not all carvings were confirmed as authentically Moriori."
  •  Done
• "In pre-European times, karaka was not known for its traditional healing value other than in its nutrition, though karaka did have other certain uses, with its underside of the leaf was used to extract an infection and its upper side was applied fresh to heal injured or infected skin." suggest "While pre-European Māori primarily valued karaka for nutrition rather than medicine, they did use leaf undersides to draw out infections and fresh upper surfaces to heal injured skin."
  •  Done
• "A rāhui has since been placed on the trees due to their delicate condition, and immediate measures are being taken to save the few carved trees that remain." suggest "A rāhui now protects the remaining carved trees due to their fragile state, with conservation measures underway."
  •  Done
• the article is missing any mention of conservation status, by either the IUCN or New Zealand Threat Classification System
  •  Done

Ok, the improvements look good. I've made a few copyedits; please audit. I've checked all images and they are licensed suitably for use in Wikipedia. The captions in the description section are acceptable, but weak; I suggest these more explanatory captions that align with the description given in the text:

• "Inflorescence" -> "Close-up of karaka's greenish-yellow flower panicle and characteristic leathery, oval-shaped leaves"
• "Its fruit" -> "Clusters of karaka fruit showing different ripening stages, from green to orange-yellow, hanging from branches with yellowing leaves"
• "Foliage" -> "Dense foliage of a mature karaka tree showing its characteristic branching pattern and dark green, glossy leaves"

I've checked several references to ensure text-source integrity, and didn't find any issues. Overall, I think the article meets the GA criteria, and am happy to promote it at this time. Cheers, Esculenta (talk) 06:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for reviewing this article. I have added the new captions to the article. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 09:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)