Talk:John O'Connor

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Disambiguation

This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.DisambiguationWikipedia:WikiProject DisambiguationTemplate:WikiProject DisambiguationDisambiguation articles

Biography: Politics and Government / Sports and Games

	Biography portal This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This disambiguation page is supported by the politics and government work group.
	Sports portal This disambiguation page is supported by the sports and games work group.

Christianity: Catholicism

	Christianity portal This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
	Catholic Church portal This disambiguation page is supported by WikiProject Catholicism.

Ireland

This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles

New York (state)

This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles

Requested move of John Joseph O'Connor articles

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved the last two pages as per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Yashovardhan (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– WP:BISHOP provides that if disambiguation is required for bishops of the Latin Church, the name of their order is appended to the title, i.e., "(bishop)". If further disambiguation is required, the name of the episcopal see is included, i.e., "(bishop of See)" or "(archbishop of See)" as appropriate. Accordingly, I propose that John O'Connor (cardinal) be moved to John O'Connor (archbishop of New York). (I would have proposed John O'Connor (bishop), but that would still be ambiguous with the article currently titled John Joseph O'Connor (bishop).)

I propose that John Joseph O'Connor (bishop) be moved to John J. O'Connor (bishop of Newark) per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:BISHOP. The bishop is typically referred to as John J. O'Connor rather than John Joseph O'Connor and the proposed parenthetical is necessary to distinguish the subject from the former Archbishop of New York. It is worth noting that retaining the full middle name in the title would not preclude further disambiguation as the middle name is shared with the former Archbishop of New York.

I propose that John J. O'Connor be moved to John J. O'Connor (politician) as the existing title is ambiguous with the two bishops and I see no basis for the article meeting the standards of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

Finally, this may be beyond the scope of a requested move, but I would propose that, after links have been corrected, John Joseph O'Connor (bishop) and John J. O'Connor be redirected to John O'Connor. 142.160.131.202 (talk) 00:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support all. Seems reasonable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ~~all~~ first cardinal being the highest position he held, it is equivalent to bishop as a dismabiguator. If there were multiple John O'Conner's who were cardinals, then we could discuss a move to the see. Without the need to move the cardinal, the subsequent moves are also unnecessary and would create additional unneeded disambiguation. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:20, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- After seeing the below comments, I'm fine with a move on the second two, and can see how it would be beneficial. I don't necessarily "support" it, but I'm not opposed anymore. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:09, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support latter two, oppose first. I agree with Tony about cardinal being a good disambiguation. However, the other two are still required. "John J. O'Connor" is clearly ambiguous so the politician article needs disambiguation. And I have seen nothing to disagree with "John J. O'Connor" being the common name of the Newark bishop. Jenks24 (talk) 09:46, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Support all~~ per the well reasoned nomination. Both the Newark and New York guys were called John Joseph O'Connor, so have to be disambiguated from each other. They're both bishops too, so we have to specify bishop of where. On the "cardinal" issue, that is probably a bit confused. WP:BISHOP sort of implies that we should only use "bishop", "priest" or "deacon" as disambiguators - it specifically says we should not use "archbishop", unless it's the full "archbishop of XXX" disambiguator. The only other ambiguous American cardinal is named John Wright (bishop of Pittsburgh), which backs that up. That said, though, Category:Italian cardinals has numerous entries disambiguated by "cardinal", so it's a bit of a mess. All in all I think moving the NY guy form "cardinal" to "archbishop of New York" will be beneficial though, as it's crystal clear what is meant and consistent with the Pittsburgh one. — Amakuru (talk) 10:11, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Following comments by Cuchullain, as well as Jenks24, it seems the consensus is to retain the "cardinal", so I'm changing my vote to concur with that. Changed to Support latter two, oppose first. — Amakuru (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the first; support the other two. I think "cardinal" is the better, clearer disambiguation here - it won't be confused for anybody else. However, the other two articles need to move as they're ambiguous.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:20, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - given the preference for "cardinal" I have opened a new RM at Talk:Carlo Visconti (bishop) to bring others into line with that. — Amakuru (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.