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Talk:Joe Brown's Carmel Corn/GA1

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GA Review

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Asilvering (talk · contribs) 00:25, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Review

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  1. Well-written:
    2. Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (prose) Is there a particular reason we care about Starke's opinion? I'm not sure why she's being quoted and having sentences attributed to her. Why not paraphrase, as is usual?
     Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Likewise Korfhage - but this one is even more odd, since you've already covered it: "which continues to operate as the mall's last remaining original store". Why not move fn8 up to the end of that sentence and delete the Korfhage sentence altogether?

     Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Note to above: neither of those comments apply to the "Reception" section. Good to have names and direct quotes there.

    "After her son Lee purchased the business..." Are you particularly attached to the list that follows this? (If so, why?) It's a bit of a complicated list to read in prose (I added another set of parentheses, which help a bit, but nevertheless), but I also don't know if it really adds anything. Are these particularly iconic items? If not, maybe something like "Even after her son Lee purchased the business c. 1980, she continued to work into her mid 70s..." will do the job?

    I figured which products the business sold, and how they changed with ownership, was relevant. ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    "Siblings Ron Ertler and Diana Ray purchased Joe Brown's in November 1998. They were taught how to make caramel corn by the previous owner, who had purchased the business from the Brown family." I gather from this sentence that you couldn't find out who owned it from 1992-1998. Is there any way you can write this the other way around so it's happening in chronological order? Or just remove the bit about who taught them to make caramel corn, I guess. If the recipe has been unchanged since the business was founded, each new owner has to learn it from the last one more or less by definition.

     Done Correct, I was unable to determine the name(s) of owner(s) during 1992 to 1998. ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    "In addition to the Lloyd Center shop..." faulty parallelism in this sentence. The current sentence says that they currently sell two things: popcorn and the Lloyd Center shop.

    Better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    In general I find the Subsequent owners section confusing to read: as far as I can tell it's just a list of facts in chronological order. This presents some trouble when you have facts like "In 2010, there were four Joe Brown's shops and an online store" that don't fit into any kind of narrative. (Who ran the store then? Impossible question. You've put this fact in the only place it can go without being misleading.) My advice for solving this is to make a paragraph each for Ertler and Ray, for Kurahara, and for Ferguson, and rewrite the facts you have to actually make each paragraph about them, rather than a series of facts about the store arranged into sentences. (eg: "Portland native Cyndee Kurahara bought the business from Marc and Ratha Chouinard c. 2010..." - there isn't really anything else to say about them) No one will miss the Zschomler article.

    I understand your concerns here. But, I have to say, the current text is representative of sourcing. Sometimes sources just confirm which products the business made, or who were the owners at the time. But the sources don't necessarily confirm when ownership changes took place. I've tinkered with this section a bit more, which I hope helps with flow, but I'm not sure we can structure each paragraph around ownership when the transition dates are not known. ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    		 Pass Pass
    (b) (MoS) Will double-check MOS:WTW and MOS:LEAD at the end; otherwise fine Pass Pass
  2. Verifiable with no original research:
    3. Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (references) The first footnote says Joe Brown founded the shop, but it's attached to a sentence that says "The parents of Betty Ann Brown established Joe Brown's, named for her brother". What's going on here? -- Ah, their own website says "George Brown and his son Joe founded Joe Brown’s Carmel Corn". Something like this would be clearer, I think. This first paragraph isn't actually about Betty at all - you can take her out of it completely and it will read much better. Then you just need to introduce her in the next paragraph.
     Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:09, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    fn5 (Effinger): (imo) you should just pull this one, since this is the most passing of passing mentions and the information is in the other footnotes at the end of the sentence.

     Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:09, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    		 Pass Pass
    (b) (citations to reliable sources) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
    (c) (original research) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
    (d) (copyvio and plagiarism) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
  3. Broad in its coverage:
    4. Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (major aspects) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
    (b) (focused) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
    5. Notes Result
    The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
    6. Notes Result
    The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
  6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
    7. Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass
    (b) (appropriate use with suitable captions) The reviewer has left no comments here Pass Pass

I'm not aware of any freely-licensed images available at this time, but I live in Portland and plan to take photographs at the Lloyd Center next time I'm in the area. Thanks, ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:49, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Result

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Result Notes
Pass Pass Done! Grats.

Suggestions (no bearing on pass/fail)

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Is there any reason why some of these Oregonian articles have links and some don't? Would be great to have links for all of them.

Yes, some are accessible via the Oregonian archives at Multnomah County Library. In other words, some sources are from live URLs and others are from a library database. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:45, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Another Believer Got it. All the online links check out, so I'll happily AGF on the others. -- asilvering (talk) 03:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think Brown family (1932–1940, 1960-1992) would be clearer, or you could break it into two headings, like "Original stores" and "Reopening" (or whatever suits you best). Your call.

 Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Two final suggestions (I won't hold the GA up for these):
"The business has also carried ... to the Portland International Airport." -- I don't think this is a problem in the lead, but I don't think it's lead-level important, either. I'd pull it.
 Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"The caramel corn recipe has remained mostly unchanged since the business was founded, as of 2019." -- I know why you have "as of 2019" in there, but because the sentence about Ferguson buying the business in 2019 comes so close after, I think it runs the risk of implying that he changed the recipe. There's an "at the time" in the sentence before and after the "recipe has remained mostly unchanged", so simply folding this sentence into either one of those would imply that even more strongly. If you think you can rearrange the sentences to avoid the implication that the recipe has changed, I think you should do so. -- asilvering (talk) 05:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'll take another look. Meantime, I've added a paragraph break. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:16, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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