Talk:James Hamilton (barrister)

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James Hamilton as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) in Ireland is figure of the public and frequently referred to in the public media and the political discourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Digiteach (talk • contribs) 13:54, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

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Former adviser and member of the Scottish National Party (SNP)

An edit war has broken out between me and others about the fact that James Hamilton was a former adviser and member of the SNP.

I thought that I would start this discussion to work out a compromise text to add to this page.

I'm perfectly happy and see no reason why the page shouldn't include the following text.

'James Hamilton was a former adviser and member of the Scottish National Party (SNP).'

Please post your opinions about this matter below. Warranted edits (talk) 17:44, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Various people removed the claim that he was a member of the Scottish National Party – I did most recently. If there is a reliable source the information should be re-added but the present source does not say this. When first added no source was supplied. I have added he was originally appointed as independent advisor by Alex Salmond which is included in the source cited. Thincat (talk) 17:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict)This statement was not sourced when added. Per WP:V for disputed material the burden of proof is on the person who adds content to provide a suitable reliable source for it. This principle is applied particularly strongly on biographies of living people. Hut 8.5 17:53, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I cannot find any reliable source which suggests that Mr Hamilton was ever either an SNP member or an SNP adviser. As the page currently notes, he was and is an adviser to the Scottish Government, which is not the same thing. Zcbeaton (talk) 19:40, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

There is absolutely no substance to the (frankly silly) rumour that James Hamilton is a member of the SNP. He is not only not Scottish, he is not British. He has severed in the post of independent advisor to both the Scottish Government and the Welsh Government on the ministerial code specifically because he does NOT have ties to the people in either government.

The page should not contain that text because 1. it is not true and 2. because he is not an advisor to the SNP. He is an advisor to the Scottish government, not to a political party. As has been already pointed out, the two are not the same thing.

However, I would like to raise a different issue: the way First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is referred to. In the first instance Alex Salmond is referred to as 'First Minister Alex Salmond' and in the second as 'Alex Salmond'. The Welsh First Minister is referred by both name and title "Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones". In the first instance First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is NOT given her title but referred to as 'Nicola Sturgeon' and in the second instance referred to only as 'Sturgeon'. At the very least this is sexist. It needs to be changed. (I understand this page has been vandalised and can see why it is locked, but otherwise, I would fix this myself)

Also are we absolute sure he is a QC? The Irish as far as I know have not had Queen's Councils for about 100 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.62.214 (talk) 13:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I just checked. In the Republic of Ireland where Mr. Hamilton is a barrister they have a State Council (SC), not a Queen's Council. Here is a link to his LinkdIn page where he does not call himself a QC. https://ie.linkedin.com/in/james-hamilton-25164a29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.62.214 (talk) 13:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Why are you asking about this? So far as I can see the article does not say he is a QC and never has done so. Indeed, it says he is an SC and gives a link to Senior_counsel#Ireland. Are you looking at something elsewhere than on Wikipedia? On the "First Minister" matter someone has now changed it and I have no problem with this though I don't think it was necessary. The article was saying Sturgeon "succeeded" FM Salmond and that was sufficient. Both are referred to by surname alone after the first mention. The second mention of Alex was in a link to Alex Salmond scandal. Thincat (talk) 18:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

SC does not stand for State Council, it stands for Senior Counsel. For what it's worth, I added a "citation needed" tag after SC and somebody has removed it. I cannot find a single reliable source which corroborates that James Hamilton is an SC. There are many sources which describe him as a QC, which we decisively know is not the case. Unless anyone can find a reliable source - preferably in the Irish media rather than the error-prone British press - that describes him as an SC, I think it should be removed. Zcbeaton (talk) 16:33, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

The article has not been saying SC stands for "state council"; that was merely an incorrect remark on this talk page. I was the editor who removed the "citation needed" tag from the article and I did this because, in the same edit, I added a citation (diff) with the edit summary "ref for senior counsel (similar to QC)". It would help your case if you were to reduce your inaccurate remarks and focus carefully on the article. Now then, in looking further, I found several .ie references to him being a QC (when I was looking for SC!)[1][2][3] So I am flummoxed! Reading Senior_counsel#Ireland (which looks to me carefully written) suggests barristers in Ireland had stopped calling themselves QC by the 1960s. Thincat (talk) 09:13, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

It suddenly came into my head that Aidan O'Neill is a QC in both England and Scotland and, bless him, I now find he has also been called to the bar in Ireland.[4] Is he both a QC and an SC? Anyway, I can't find Hamilton (or O'Neill) in any UK or Irish database but I really don't know where and how I should be looking. Thincat (talk) 09:52, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

You would generally look up a barrister on the Irish Law Library website to find out when/if they were called to the Bar and to the Inner Bar (making them a senior counsel), but as Hamilton is not currently practising as a barrister, he is no longer a member of the Law Library and can't be found on its website. For what it's worth, I remain unconvinced that Hamilton is a senior counsel. There are a number of references in the media to him being a QC, which is, as far as I can tell, an incorrect assumption made by the British press (on the basis that most British lawyers appointed to investigations like this do tend to be QCs), which has now become so entrenched that it is simply being repeated by journalists who have no reason to fact-check it. Of the .ie references Thincat has found, two are republications of agency copy from reporters with Press Association Scotland and the other was written by a journalist based in London. If Hamilton is a senior counsel, you would expect him to be described as such in Irish government press releases such as this one from as recently as 2020, but he is not. As for the suggestion that he could be a QC but not an SC, I have found no evidence anywhere that Hamilton has called to the Bar of England and Wales, let alone distinguished himself there to the extent of being appointed a QC. I strongly feel that the reference to Hamilton being an SC should be left out of the article until it is corroborated reliably, for example in an article which has nothing to do with the Salmond/Sturgeon saga. Zcbeaton (talk) 13:22, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for looking into this as well and I think I agree with what you say. I found one seemingly reliable reference in the Scotsman to him being a Senior Counsel[5] but, like you, I suspect this is wrong. I think it best to remove the SC bit and the reference which, so far as remember, I added only to support this one claim (!). Thincat (talk) 15:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I have removed the SC but I have left the reference since it seems quite generally useful. Thincat (talk) 21:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2021

Please add the result of James Hamiltons investigation of Nicola Sturgeon. Edinburghrules (talk) 18:15, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Done. AlistairMcMillan (talk) 18:38, 22 March 2021 (UTC)