Talk:J. Lister Holmes/GA1

GA Review

Passed. Thank you for contributing this content to Wikipedia! Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: Generalissima (talk · contribs) 23:30, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Hydrangeans (talk · contribs) 20:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I'm expecting to have a bit of time in the coming week, so I'll probably review around next weekend if that's alright. I'll pick up some of the sources from the library in the meantime so I can give the best review I can. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 20:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hydrangeans: Just checking in! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for checking in. I'm sorry about the tardiness of the review. I got distracted and caught up in other tasks this weekend. I admittedly don't have a good excuse for this; there are some IRL deadlines, but the press is from bad planning on my part. Is it okay if I try to do the GA review in the next couple of days? I should be able to get it done once sit down with it for some blocked out time because I now have the sources I wanted to read and check. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 01:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Totally fine with me - I have a habit of procrastination with these too! - was just checking in cause I know its easy to forget. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Generalissima: Thanks again for the patience! I've picked quite a time to get this review down so I'll apologize ahead of time for any further delays on my part in replying to your reply to the review. You've got a lot of experience in article creation, and I'm happy to say it continues to show. I've noted some minor matters that I hope will be simple to clear up. (link to article at time of initial review) Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 00:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Holmes began to shift towards a modernist aesthetic, strongly influenced by the International Style: A slight thing admittedly, but the article body doesn't characterize the International Style's influence on Holmes as "strong", and Dietz doesn't use such amplifying language either. For a rigorous NPOV tone, I suggest dispensing with "strongly".
- Fixed. - G
Otherwise, the lead is in great shape.

Biography

he focused on Beaux-Arts architecture under Professor Paul Philippe Cret: This language (that Holmes '[studied] under' Paul Cret) gives the impression that Cret was an instructor or advisor to Holmes. However, Dietz only verifies that Paul Cret directed the architecture curriculum (page 248), and it's not clear to me if a director of curriculum necessarily advises/instructs all students in the program. The comparison that comes to mind is that at a university a director of a major or of undergraduate studies or of graduate studies oversees the program but there are often students who pass through it without directly interacting with that professor. Is there a way to trim or rephrase this to avoid implying Cret instructed or advised Holmes when the sources don't seem to verify that one way or another?
- Fixed. - G
Holmes again returned home to Seattle to work at various prominent firms, including Bebb & Gould; Schack, Young, and Myers; and the office of B. Marcus Priteca.: I notice that according to PCAD Holmes made partner at Priteca's firm. Is that noteworthy, i. e., should it be stated in the article? If you have reasons for not including it, no worries. From what I understand about lawyers, making partner seems like a big deal, but I don't know whether it's the same in the architecture business.
- Fixed. - G
a new aesthetic which combined the International Style with elements of what would become the Northwest Regional style.: Dietz's wording on page 249 is (blended International Style motifs with distinctly regional elements and suggests the emerging tendency toward a regionalist version of modernism that would reach fruition after World War II. Dietz doesn't bring up the Northwest Regional style by name, but for a reader more versed in architectural history than me, would Dietz's language read as straightforwardly implying the Northwest Regional style?
- There's not really any other form of regional style of architecture in the Pacific Northwest, esp. when modernism is considered. Sources like this one often just describe the Northwest Regional style as "Regional Modernalism" when not ambiguous.
  - That satisfies me; I just wanted to check and be sure. Thanks! Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 1940, he was tasked by the Seattle Housing Authority: Would it be possible to revise this to avoid the passive voice and to avoid reusing the phrasing "tasked" (used two sentences previously, about the Washington Pavilion)? Something like, 'in 1940, the Seattle Housing Authority hired'... etc.?
- Rephrased. - G
incorporated features such as modular design components and a thin-shell concrete roof designed by Jack Christiansen (bolding added): This strikes me as being too close a paraphrase of Dietz's incorporated modular design, this structure was notable for its thin-shell concrete roof designed by engineer Jack Christiansen (page 253, bolding added)). Is there a way to rephrase this? Additionally, the citation note only gives 249–251, but that should probably be extended to page 253, since that's where the information about Christiansen and the building's design are.
- Rephrased and extended cite. - G

Personal life

Holmes was a member of the Washington chapter of the American Institute of Architects (AIA) from 1926 until his death, becoming a fellow of the institute in 1955: No content issue here, but I'm wondering why it's organized as "personal life", separate from his professional biography. The AIA is a professional association, so it seems like this affiliation would be part of his career life.
- Good idea, fixed. - G

Works

Dessau House: Should this be "Arnold Dessau House"? (since you elsewhere use a full name when known, as in "Phil Polsky House")
- I decided to just stick with the surnames, since none seem ambiguous.

Bibliography

National Registry of Historic Places Nomination Form: Should this citation give Bruce Holmes Drake and Eileen Drake as the author names? (page 27 of the PDF credits them as being the ones who prepared the form)
- Oh, thank you for catching that! - G

Source review

The article cites high-quality sources: university press-published books (Shaping Seattle Architecture and A Guide to Architecture in Washington State) and a database maintained by a university library and overseen by an academic librarian (Pacific Coast Architecture Database). I was able to access all cited sources and have checked every citation. Almost all are without issue. I make only the following suggestions:

The citation appended to the sentence that in the current version ends designed by engineer Jack Christiansen should extend to page 253, not just page 251, as page 253 provides the information about the distribution center designed with Christiansen.
In December 1917, he married Jane Ingram Lambuth. Jane died in 1975, and Holmes remarried to Janet Powell Tourtellotte the following year.: I think a citation has been misplaced. This information is in the PCAD entry, but the citation that comes after this sentence is Dietz's chapter, which doesn't mention anything about Holmes's family life.
- Oops, fixed. - G
Should the citations to Holmes's PCAD page in the list of Holmes's designs cite instead to each building's page on PCAD? I realize that would be a lot of work to add a citation for almost every listed building, but as-is the PCAD page for Holmes technically doesn't provide the street address information that you've included in the location column. They appear on the building pages which are linked but require clicking through to reach and have their own URLs and page names. This affects the following buildings:
- Rainier Golf and Country Club Clubhouse
- Lorraine Hotel
- O. W. Fisher Jr. House
- Harry Lawton House
- Sovereign Apartments
- Dorchester Hotel
- Louis Casserd House
  - I hope this works to avoid a ton of duplicate PCAD cites.
    - A little unconventional, but a reader can easily parse it and see where information comes from. Works great! Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Illustrations

File:J. Lister Holmes.png was published in the Pacific Builder and Engineer in 1928 and so falls into the public domain.
File:West Coast Woods Model Home - Portland Oregon.jpg was uploaded by its creator under a CC BY-SA 3.0 declaration.

Both images are appropriately licensed and suitably illustrate the topic. Excellent!

Overall

I consider all these minor irregularities, and if you have objections to my suggestions, I'm all ears. As far as the GA article criteria—writing, verifiability, sufficiently broad coverage, being editorially neutral, and stability—the article is in great shape, and I expect to be able to pass the article once the aforementioned matters are resolved. Please ping me when you think the article is ready for me to continue/complete the review. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 00:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hydrangeans: Thank you so much for your thorough review! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Generalissima: I've reviewed your latest revisions, and from my review everything's in great shape! The meets the prose requirements of our GA criteria, written in a clear way that an appropriately broad audience can understand. The content is clearly verifiable to high-quality secondary sources without original research, and the article is sufficiently broad, providing biographical coverage of the topic with an emphasis on his professional architectural career, as that is what secondary sources consider noteworthy about him. The article conveys information without inappropriate bias and appropriately represents the noteworthy secondary perspective on J. Lister Holmes, it's in a stable condition, and it's appropriately illustrated with media available for use on Wikipedia. All that to say: J. Lister Holmes meets all the Good Article criteria Well done! Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.