Talk:J. J. Yeley

Requested move

JJ Yeley → J.J. Yeley — Reverse the direction of this redirect. The subject's official website (referenced on the page) shows his name as J.J. Yeley. — Talk:JJ Yeley — Brian G 14:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support, it would be consistent with other initialed names, and it is known that the Js stand for something, even though they're not part of his given name. Spicy 13:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
• Support, its about time. I've hated having to do edits to this article with they wrong spelling. Royalbroil 18:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
• Support per above. I have AWB, so I'll use it to fix the redirect links. --D-Day ^{What up? Am I cool, or what?} 22:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved to "J. J." per WP:NC. —Nightstallion (?) 09:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Further discussion of whether the article should be located at J.J. Yeley or J. J. Yeley is ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:Requested_moves. Please make a comment there if you have an opinion that you would like to be heard.--Brian G 15:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have cut and pasted the discussion to this page, as IMHO this is the better page to hold this discussion (Philip Baird Shearer 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)):

Move done incorrectly?

I think that a move that I requested was not done correctly. On June 4, I requested the following:

• JJ Yeley → J.J. Yeley — Reverse the direction of this redirect. The subject's official website (referenced on the page) shows his name as J.J. Yeley. — Talk:JJ Yeley — Brian G 14:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It appears that on June 9, a move was done between JJ Yeley and J. J. Yeley (instead of J.J. Yeley).

What do I do now? Do I need to put in another request, or can this be "undone" and corrected?--Brian G 14:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it was done correctly. Believe me, I know what I'm doing. Cf. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people)#Middle_names_-_abbreviations_of_names: For abbreviated names (if these are the most used) every abbreviation is followed by a point, and every point is followed by a single space. —Nightstallion (?) 05:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Nightstallion, Please understand that J.J. is not an abbreviation of a first name and middle name, it is a nickname. The person's real name is Christopher Beltram Hernandez Yeley, but they use the nickname of J.J. without the space. The public figure who actually uses this name has their own website located at Official website which clearly shows how they like their name spelled. Would this not take precedence over anything else? Please reconsider your decision.--Brian G 11:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Mh. I personally don't think so, but I'd like to hear what others have to say about this. —Nightstallion (?) 12:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say there's a point at which initials, even if they are from a person's real name, become more than just initials, and instead become a "nickname" of sorts. Not "T. J." but "T.J." (or even "TJ" would be preferable). The difference comes out when you prounounce it, it becomes a single word despite the punctuation. I'm sure no one calls him "Jay Jay Yeley" with any kind of pause between the J's, but instead "Jayjay". When it's not even from his real name, then I can't imagine why anyone would treat it like an abbreviated name at all. Though I would say this could be applied to any case in which initials are used as a "word" here's some more *solid* evidence about this case in particular: the official website has no spaces anywhere. - BalthCat 13:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted the minor edit history on the page J.J. Yeley so the people who edit this page can move it to that name if they want to without further administrator assistance. However I would point out to you that as Nightstallion has indicated "J. J." is what the guidelines indicate and perhapse you should discuss this further before making a move to "J.J." --Philip Baird Shearer 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm with no space, per official website. Royalbroil 19:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that we should remove the space, in case all of the above didn't make my position obvious.--Brian G 01:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The guideline with initial names seems to be that the space be included. Of course, this clashes with the style to which most people are accustomed because media outlets' (even on the web) style almost always demand no space between first and middle initials. If we wish to be consistent with other initial names, then we must leave the space. See H. G. Wells and E. B. White for other prominent examples of this. Spicy 14:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand that there are conventions and guidelines that should be followed when it makes sense, but, in this case, I feel that there are 2 overriding factors. #1 - Unlike the 2 noted authors, these (J.J.) are not initials, they are a nickname. #2 - J.J. himself uses his nickname without the spaces on his own website. Shouldn't we trust and respect that he knows how he wants it? If some famous individual changes their name officially to some seemingly ludicrous combination of letters and symbols, wouldn't that name be used as the title of their article, despite convention/guideline, so long as there was not a technical issue which prevented it?--Brian G 15:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Although to be accurate, they are initials of his nickname. (He stated what the Js stood for in a pre-race interview, although I don't remember off the top of my head what they were.) My point was that although Yeley's official site itself may not use the space, I don't think that's reason enough to justify going against the guideline. Yeley's website copywriters may just be using the standard used by most newspapers (although I notice the New York Times writes it with the space based on a search). If it can be verified that Yeley himself explicitly wanted the space omitted, then we should adhere to that. Until then, I would say leave as is. You may find writings by either Wells or White that may omit the space in their initialed names, but those alone would not justify moves to H.G. Wells or E.B. White. Spicy 17:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Why do we even have a policy that says there must be a space between the letters? It just looks gawky to me. --D-Day ^{What up? Am I cool, or what?} 15:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Because generally that is grammatically accurate. Just as you would space the names themselves, you should also space their initials. However, a notable exception seems to be the abbreviation for "United States," as Wikipedia's guidelines state that it should be abbreviated "U.S." Spicy 17:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Daytona 500 Changes

The paragraph that was added detailing how Yeley made it through the 500 was not well written, had several gramatical errors, and was generally unneeded; so I removed it. Avisron 01:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Updating the main Page

JJ Yeley's stats need to be updated. He finished the 2007 season, 21st in points. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smokenbobby (talk • contribs) 04:37, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move (2012)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

J. J. Yeley → J.J. Yeley – While it may be "grammatically accurate" as discussed above several years ago, it is also a case of Wikipedia using a spelling/capitalization/grammatical format that is not used anywhere else. All sources have Yeley as "J.J.", without the space, and as also mentioned this is not a case of "first and middle name initials", but a nickname. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - Is this is a case of PJ Harveyism? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:04, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)#Middle names and abbreviated names there is "no consensus for always using spaces between initials, neither for never using them. However, in most Wikipedia articles where the subject uses two consecutive initials, the space between initials is used". I have no opinion on wether it would be more right for this person to have the space or not, but I think a move would be unnecessary. The fact that 'J. J.' is a nickname rather than proper initials shouldn't matter. Pinut (talk) 09:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • The fact that Wikipedia is the only place that uses "J. J." instead of "J.J." does, though. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. All sources that I found (on an admittedly brief search) use JJ Yeley. We should either go with the standard Wikipedia practice (current title) or with the common name ("JJ", no punctuation). The proposed title is a mish-mash of the two and doesn't feel like an improvement to me. Jenks24 (talk) 09:51, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - this is going to be a hard one. on JJ's official website, he uses JJ Yeley AND J.J. Yeley, but never J. J. Yeley. so....my vote is for either JJ Yeley or J.J. Yeley. Soosim (talk) 10:06, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, NASCAR's official results always use "J.J." [1]. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:13, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. There are reliable sources for "JJ Yeley", "J.J. Yeley", "J J Yeley", and "J. J. Yeley". E.g. for the last one, Auto Week December 12, 2011, p. 86: "This year's Turkey Night saw NASCAR Sprint Cup Series driver Jason Leffler on the scene, while J. J. Yeley, Kasey Kahne and Tony Stewart have all raced in it." Also, trademarked with a space.[2][3]. -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.