Talk:Islands of the Clyde/Archives/2024 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Islands of the Clyde. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Untitled

The number of islands on this list depends on the boundaries defining the "Lower Firth of Clyde." I have added

Pladda (south of Arran)
Inchmarnock (to the west of Bute), although that could be considered as being in Loch Fyne.
Ailsa Craig (in the outer reaches, but a very well-known landmark to all vessels entering or leaving the Clyde)
Davaar (off Campbeltown)

BlairRMartin 15:25, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)

I think all those islands belong on the page. They are definitely not Hebrides so they belgon to the Clyde I reckon.

As a result I've also added the islands in the Kyles of Bute and the Sanda group.

I think the title of the page is a little over verbose though, Islands of the Clyde would be simpler and communicate more I think. I might change it in a while if nobody thinks otherwise. Neil McDermott 15:45, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Inner Hebrides?

I would describe these islands as part of the Inner Hebrides, yet no mention is made of them there, nor of the Inner Hebrides here. What do others think?--Mais oui! 22:51, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't agree, their human histories have been sufficiently different from those of the Hebrides that they aren't grouped together. --JBellis 20:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree with JBellis, and whilst I can't find a precise definition the Collins Encyclopedia of Scotland describes the Inner Hebrides as lying 'east of the Minch' and I have never heard anyone describe Arran as being in 'The Hebrides'. I have just completed what I hope is a helpful tidy up of island categories. See Category talk:Islands of Scotland. Ben MacDui 20:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC) PS You were of course right re Movern Mais oui!. I ran out of things to say and cheated a little. Long may the Auld Alliance bear fruit!

Encylopedia Britannica (1978) says “Hebrides - group of islands of the west coast of Scotland extending in an arc between 55.35 and 58.30 N and 5.26 and 8.40 W.” This includes Gigha, St.Kilda and everything up to Cape Wrath – although not for some reason, North Rona. It’s not unequivocal, but as neither this nor the Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland include the Clyde, I rest my case. I will copy something similar on the Category talk:Islands of Scotland page. Ben MacDui 19:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking out his sentence "They are often mistakenly grouped with the Hebrides, but technically, the Hebrides are the islands to the west of Kintyre and the Argyll coast." The article should define what the islands are, not what they aren't & besides the first sentence already partly describes the relationships between the clyde and the hebrides. What we really need (as JBellis has said above) is a little on the social and economic histories of the area to demostrate why the islands are different.Neil McDermott 18:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Island Template

I have created a Template:Infobox Scottish island for use with Scottish islands which is based on the existing Template:Infobox Scotland place but which contains parameters which may be more useful for smaller islands which don't have their own police force or Lord Lieutenant. Comments are welcome on the associated talk page.

I have created it as a template for all Scottish islands and used an image of a longboat next to the Saltire to emphasise the difference with the Scotland place Template. The said image is called Image:McdonaldBoat.jpg. Before ancient foes of Clan Donald complain, I am assured by User:Calgacus that the proper name for this image is a 'Lymphad' and that its was actually purloined from the Russian wikipedia. He also points out that the same image appears for example at the bottom of Image:Norse-Gael_Warrior.PNG[1] and the Sinclair Orkney arms [2] [3] which suggests to me that the lymphad may be appropriate for all our isles whether they have a primarily Celtic or primarily Norse history. This note has been copied in various places including Talk:Orkney Talk:Shetland Talk:Hebrides Talk:Islands of the Clyde etc.

An example of the template may be found at:Flannan Isles

There is space for references. Groupings and population information are available at List of islands of Scotland the latter being based on the 2001 census. Area measurements for the 162 islands of 100 acres or more in size are available in Haswell-Smith, Hamish. (2004) The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh. Canongate. I'd be happy to pass the relevant numbers on if needed, although I doubt I am going to get around to listing all 162. There is more on this subject at Template talk:Infobox Scottish island. Ben MacDui (Talk) 10:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Eilean Dearg (or Eilean Dearg, Loch Riddon)

Hallo, this island has a redlink from this article under the name with "Loch Riddon", and a redlink from the Islands of the Clyde template without it. And, to add interest, it doesn't seem to be mentioned in List of islands of Scotland. Someone might like to sort it out? (I've made a similar comment on the talk page of the list). PamD (talk) 16:07, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I've found it on the Ordance Survey and on the Canmore Database. It should be possible to create a stub article based on that info. There is also another Eilean Dearg, off Knoydart. Lurker (said · done) 17:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

You can find a brand new article on the island here. Lurker (said · done) 18:07, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Islands of the Clyde/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk) 22:25, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I will review. Pyrotec (talk) 22:25, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments

There is much good material in this article, it is well referenced and well illustrated, but unfortunately the prose needs quite a lot of work done on it. I would hope that the article makes GA-status this time round, but if not it will fail on "prose".

I will now go through the article section by section, but leaving the WP:Lead until last. Most of my comments will concern prose, (sorry to say this) I think the lead is particularly bad but I'd rather get the main body of the article sorted out first. Pyrotec (talk) 15:38, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Geology and geography -

Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - The first paragraph has internal consistency and is concerned mainly with the Highland fault boundary and igneous rocks. In contrast, the second paragraph has no consistency: the first half is about an igneous rock "Ailsite" and the second is about glaciation. I, therefore, suggest that the first two sentences be moved into the first paragraph and the remainder moved into the final paragraph, with which it has more in common. It would also be helpful to state where Ailsa Craig is (roughly south of the Isle of Arran, since it does not appear on the Firth of Clyde map).
Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - The final paragraph has consistency. I suggest an initial minor change: "The Firth of Clyde, in which these island lie, is north of the Irish Sea ...." to clarify why The Firth of Clyde is being discussed.
Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - Both the current third and fourth paragraph contain statements that suffer from WP:Vagueness, i.e "...which result in a machair landscape in places..." and "... and various lighthouses act as an aid to navigation". I suggest that a few examples are given/named.

History -
- Prehistory -

Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - It would be helpful to wikilink Clyde cairn. I assume it is the Chambered cairn rather the cairn that is being discussed?

Linked - there is a possible link to the rather lamentable Court cairn, which I found hiding under the Irish name.

Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - This is an interesting topic, but it is all about the Firth of Clyde (and perhaps unkindly it looks as if it might be a copy and paste from another article). The comment "Few of the 100 or so examples have been given a radiocarbon dating but a chambered cairn at Monamore on Arran has been dated to 3160 BC" is the only link of this topic to the Islands of the Clyde. Is Monamore the only one on the islands (this should be clarified)?

They are abundant on the islands! - wording amended.

Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - Similar comments apply to the Bronze Age "...left megaliths at various sites.." and an example of a jet bracklet on Bute is given (presumably Bronze Age but not a megalith).

Hopefully clearer now.

- Viking influence -

Y Pyrotec (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC) - The following sentence "The Outer Hebrides remained under the control of Godred V of the Isle of Man while the Inner Hebrides south of Ardnamurchan and the islands of the Clyde became part of the Kingdom of the Hebrides controlled by Somerled and this began a process whereby the islands of the Clyde became Scottish in language and culture rather than Norse" has two many "AND"s and (sorry about that) should be broken into more readable sentences.

Done.

...to be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 16:51, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for this. Will take some remedial action asap. Ben Mac Dui 17:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

First pass - will continue. Ben Mac Dui 09:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

- Modern Scotland -

"From the mid thirteenth century to the present day all of the islands of the Clyde have remained part of modern Scotland." makes sense in a way, i.e. I understand it, but it could do with a rework.

I think the above are all attempted but I will bow out for now to avoid edit conflicts. Ben Mac Dui

I'm sorry if I interfere with your corrective actions. I saw one edit conflict, so I stopped my edit. I was reviewing the article, and it was easier to do minor fixes than to list them as "faults". Pyrotec (talk) 19:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

WP:lead -

You've fixed it already, no further comments from me are needed!

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

A comprehensive, well referenced, well illustrated article on the Islands of the Clyde.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

In the light of recent changes, I'm awarding this article GA status.

I would note, that whilst "Doon the Water" tourism and Clyde Puffers, such as the "Vital Spark", are mentioned to me it strange there is no mention of Cal Mac and its precessors David McBrain and the Caledonian SteamShip Company. Nevertheless, I'm giving it a GA. Pyrotec (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Islands of the Clyde. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:40, 17 November 2017 (UTC)