Talk:Independent Ireland

Ideology

A very new editor is deleting Social conservatism from the ideology section of the inbox and substituting in "Fiscal conservatism", citing "their website" as evidence. There is nothing on the website about policy, except some statements on reducing public spending and duplication of services. The party, within the article, are cited as attending a European conservatives' meeting, and its leader is cited as being "against abortion - full stop" - in the same interview going on to say he didn't want to live in a country where abortion is permitted. I think it's fair to say that's enough to justify a inclusion of socially conservative position in the infobox? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

To me, it is abundantly clear that the party is socially conservative. While it may be playing down those aspects, because the Irish electorate has tended to reject social conservatism recently (at least until the most recent referendum), the ideologies of its TDs are well-known, and their open association with ECR which includes parties like Brothers of Italy, Vox and Sweden Democrats clearly places them in a socially conservative position, especially relative to other parties in Ireland. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 18:22, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Adding a Representatives/Leadership Section

I've gotten comments regarding the representatives section that I attempted to add on this page. The main opposition is that they aren't on other Ireland political party pages.

However, similar sections in fact do exist on other pages. This includes the Social Democrats of Ireland page (as mentioned in my edit summary, see Social Democrats (Ireland)#Elected representatives and Social Democrats (Ireland)#Leadership). It is also present in similar fashion on the Labour Party of Ireland's page (see Leadership and Elected Representatives Section), Aontú's page (see Leadership and Elected Representatives Section), and Republican Sinn Féin's page (see Leadership section).

My question is, why can't this page also have a section similar to that when many other smaller parties do (including a lot of NI party pages as well, which I didn't include because it's part of the UK, but still worth pointing out)? If it's a problem with how I designed it or set it up, I'm willing to format it differently.

Tagging Spleodrach and Bastun as they originally brought up the complaints.

Flames675 (talk) 22:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

For the convenience of others, the sections referred to above but not linked to are Labour_Party_(Ireland)#Leadership, Labour_Party_(Ireland)#Elected_representatives, Aontú#Representatives, Aontú#Leadership, and Republican_Sinn_Féin#Leadership.

There's no issue, as far as I'm concerned, with a 'Representatives' section, in prose format, listing the number of elected officials at European, national and local level. I would have issue with a tabular format listing, with portraits, of everyone elected for a particular party. It's unnecessary and just isn't done. If there are only a few, then including a photo/montage, as is done on the SocDems page would be fine, but note the image on that page just lists their names and has a short caption - it's not a space-hogging table.

The Aontú leader section only got added in April, by a surprisingly anon IP. The RSF section is prose, including an unobtrusive table. I admit I'm surprised to see leadership sections in the Labour and SocDem articles with tables that include images; I'd obviously missed them. I think they're unnecessary, and should be replaced with prose. In the case of Labour, the table is entirely redundant anyway, as it's included already in Leader of the Labour Party (Ireland). Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Bastun. Spleodrach (talk) 16:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Because there is only 3 TDs and 1 MEP, I assumed a table such as the one I set up wouldn't be intrusive as it's only 3 rows and 1 row. However, if you believe that a prose format is better I will attempt to do it that way.

Are you all still okay with the way I worded the Councilor part? I completely agree that a table like that would be too cumbersome and thus a paragraph establishing their electoral results, highlights, and 23 candidates won would suffice.

Flames675 (talk) 19:43, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Very verbose, I have trimmed it to an acceptable length. Also, Irish councillors where on earth are you from? It's an Irish party contesting elections only in the Republic of Ireland? Spleodrach (talk) 23:26, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh, my bad. Flames675 (talk) 00:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Centrist faction

Given that the sole MEP and some faction within the party is demonstrably centrist, would it be more accurate than simply saying "right-wing" to include "centrism" as a faction? JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 18:16, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

That would be original research. We'd need a reliable source that explicitly states as such before it could be added. Helper201 (talk) 08:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Ideology, again (centre-right?)

I've removed centre-right from the infobox as the only place the party has been described as such is in talking about themselves, which is not a reliable source. All reliable sources I've seen have described them as right-wing, bar one Hot Press article that said "critics" had described them as far-right, so I think right-wing should be the ideology in the infobox. Leaving a comment here as I know infobox ideology discussions can be matters of contention, so open to discussion. — ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 12:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

"Far right"

Hi. In a recent series of edits from a number of IPs (perhaps relating to the same editor) the term "far right" was added to the body and infobox. While the addition was removed (with a note that the source provided was perhaps not correct/sufficient), it was subsequently restored. With a further link added to seemingly support this addition. Personally I share some of the concerns raised by ser!. In that, in terms of the:

• Sky News source, it seems to be a throw-away generalisation. And, personally, I wonder if it's an over-simplification by the Sky News author.
• Electomania.es source, I do not see where it describes Independent Ireland as "far right"? And, if it does, whether this post represents a reliable source?

To my mind, while a number of sources describe the party as having populist and right-wing elements/policies/members, we would need to see more sources (describing the subject as a "far right" party), before applying the label proposed. Certainly the two sources offered do not seem sufficient. Certainly compared to the references used to support the inclusion of other parties in the Category:Far-right politics in Ireland category. Guliolopez (talk) 10:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with you on both the points regarding the generalisation and the absence of evidence the second source is reliable. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 10:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't describe them as a far-right party (right-wing populist, maybe), and it appears neither would Ruth Coppinger (hardly some squishy centrist): "I think everybody in this election has been worried about the far-right and I think we saw it reflected in the vote where they got nothing," Ms Coppinger said after her election. "They will have nobody return to the Dáil, which I do think is one positive." From this article. Saying this after Independent Ireland elected 4 TDs I think is indication enough that we shouldn't classify them as far-right. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 16:58, 2 December 2024 (UTC)