Talk:Icaridin

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Valerie at LANXESS Corp. Comm. (talk · contribs) has been paid by Lanxess Corporation on their behalf.

How does it work?

Does it smell bad to the insects, or do they come up to you but decide it doesn't taste very good, and fly away without biting? -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 15:44, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or does it perhaps mask the human odours that would attract mosquitoes? -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Toxicity to salamander larvae, 2018 study

"By day 25, 45-65% of picaridin-exposed salamander larvae died." This is with what the authors described as conservative exposure. "When studying the effects of a chemical on an amphibian, we usually look for a suite of abnormalities. We couldn't collect these data because the salamanders died so quickly.""We observed heavy salamander mortality with picaridin, but not until after the fourth day of exposure. By the LC50 measure, picaridin would be deemed 'safe', but clearly, this is not the case.""The amount of repellents entering waterways peaks seasonally. If amphibians are exposed during a sensitive life stage, entire cohorts could perish. The population would not have a chance to recover until the following year. Meanwhile, mosquitoes would continue to reproduce. It suggests a negative feedback loop."" Not good for salamanders. Of course, since they feed on mosquito larvae it's not good for us either. This is another example of how destabilizing the food chain rarely involves a free lunch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.193.198 (talk) 07:05, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some proposed changes

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Information to be added or removed: In contrast to DEET, picaridin does not dissolve plastics and other synthetics (coatings, sealants). Moreover it is cosmetically more acceptable (skin feeling, odour) than DEET.

Explanation of issue: Give a more detailed explanation of sentence "Icaridin does not dissolve plastics."

References supporting change: Moore SJ, Debboun M (2007) History of Insect Repellents. In: Debboun M, Frances SP, Strickman D, editors. Insect Repellents.Principles, Methods, and Uses. New York: CRC Press. pp. 9-10 (Abstract about KBR 3023). (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284576621_History_of_Insect_Repellents)

@Spintendo: The plasticizing effects occur as a result of the plasticizer dissolving parts of the polymer chain. There are so called "solvent plasticizers" and "nonsolvent plasticizers" (Immergut, Edmund H.; Mark, Herman F. (1 January 1965). "Principles of Plasticization". Plasticization and Plasticizer Processes. American Chemical Society. 48: 1. doi:10.1021/ba-1965-0048.ch001.Page 3) DEET for example acts as a solvent plasticizer in some combinations (with common used plastics). If Icaridin would have any dissolving effect it would also be a plasticizer (every plastic dissolving leads to a plasticizing effect). This means in reverse, since Icaridin is not a plasticizer it is not able to dissolve plastics. Q.E.D.

Regarding your comment on the skin feeling you are totally right. It is not really connected with the plasticizing effect. Still it is a property of the repellent and might be of interest for the reader.

Valerie at LANXESS Corp. Comm. (talk) 12:00, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 6-MAY-2019

Extended content

Unable to review

Your edit request could not be reviewed because the page range given for verification of the claim in this source is too broad. The COI edit request reviewer cannot be expected to read 30 pages of text in order to verify one claim.
Please provide the precise page number from the source.^[a]
When ready to proceed , kindly change the {{request edit}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no. Thank you!

Regards, Spintendo 13:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ The COI editor is also reminded that all new posts on a talk page are always placed at the bottom of the page.

Reply 7-MAY-2019

Thank you for providing the page number. I'll review this shortly. Spintendo 13:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2nd Reply 7-MAY-2019

Debboun, Mustapha; Moore, Sarah (2006). "History of Insect Repellents". Insect Repellents. CRC Press. p. 9. doi:10.1201/9781420006650.ch1. ISBN 9780849371967.
Nentwig, G.; Boeckh, J.; Hoever, F.P.; Krüger, B.W.; Röder, K. (eds.). Bayrepel (KBR 3023), A New Mosquito Repellent: From Laboratory Synthesis to A Worldwide Commercial Product. 2nd European Conference on Travel Medicine. Florence.

@Valerie at LANXESS Corp. Comm.: The original Debboun source references a second source (shown above as #2) which should be included as a reference, as the information originates with the second source, rather than the first.
The proposed claim is that the agent icaridin "does not dissolve plastics", whereas the first source paraphrases the second source by stating that the agent "does not have a significant plasticizing effect". According to Mark and Immergut^[1] plasticization in general refers to the change in the thermal and mechanical properties of a given polymer which involves
1. lowering of rigidity at room temperature
2. lowering of temperature at which substantial deformations can be effected with not too large forces
3. increase of the elongation to break at room temperature
4. increase of the toughness (impact strength) down to the lowest temperature of serviceability

Please explain which of the above processes involves "dissolve(-ing) plastics".

Additionally, please elaborate on what it is about icaridin being "cosmetically more acceptable (skin feeling odour) than DEET" that helps to give a more detailed explanation of it as not dissolving plastics. Specifically — what is it about the properties of having acceptable skin feeling and odour which prevents the plasticizing effect? Please advise. When ready to proceed with your reply, kindly change the {{request edit}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no. Thank you!

Regards, Spintendo 14:57, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Immergut, Edmund H.; Mark, Herman F. (1 January 1965). "Principles of Plasticization". Plasticization and Plasticizer Processes. 48. American Chemical Society: 1. doi:10.1021/ba-1965-0048.ch001.

An explanation was provided, but not worded in a manner which could be added to the article. Spintendo 16:38, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Spintendo: Thanks for your reply. I inserted the proposed sentence under "Information to be added or removed" in the change request. Can you please let me know what is wrong with the wording? Valerie at LANXESS Corp. Comm. (talk) 08:31, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

safety/human toxicity?

is there any information available regarding safety/toxicity of the compound to humans? could the article expanded to contain that information? 89.134.199.32 (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2019 (UTC).[reply]

How do they make it?

Mention production methods. Jidanni (talk) 01:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The COI editor is also reminded that all new posts on a talk page are always placed at the bottom of the page.

[2] Immergut, Edmund H.; Mark, Herman F. (1 January 1965). "Principles of Plasticization". Plasticization and Plasticizer Processes. 48. American Chemical Society: 1. doi:10.1021/ba-1965-0048.ch001.

[a]

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