This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Also, it doesn't make sense for it not be a single as it entered the Bubbling Under Hot 100/Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs charts and even received a pretty good amount of promotion just like other singles from R&B artists around that time. Not even just all that, but Tamar herself would definitely say it was a single. Overall, I think that the type should be changed back to "single" instead of "song". Fullmoon211 (talk) 03:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Fullmoon211: Thank you for the message. Sources often refer to songs as singles even if they were never released as such so that is not definitive proof on its own. Non-singles can chart on music charts, and just because the artist refers to a song as a single that does not automatically make it so. I have seen instances where artists refer to non-singles as singles and as singles as non-singles.
The best ways to prove with greater certainty that this song was released as a fully-fledged single is either official confirmation from the label or proof that it was sent out to radio. I have found zero evidence. I could only find evidence that "Love and War", "The One", and "All The Way Home" were singles from the album. This press release follows that and does not mention "Hot Sugar" at all.
I would be more than happy to make any changes to the article, but clearer and more definitive evidence would be needed. And for the reasons I have already outlined above, the links and arguments made above are not strong enough to support this song being a single. Aoba47 (talk) 03:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just wanted to add a note that @Fullmoon211: did this edit without gaining a consensus on the matter and without addressing my concerns above (i.e. find concrete evidence from reliable sources that this song was indeed a single).
There is not any evidence that the single cover is even official as it can only be found on Discogs and not on more official sources. I am pinging @Heartfox: as I had a discussion with them on their talk page about this very issue. Apologies for pinging you, but I just want to be very clear that time and thought were put into the decision to not categorize this song as a single. Again, more evidence is needed and edits like the one above should not be done until that is provided. Aoba47 (talk) 03:53, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I checked Braxton's iTunes on Wayback Machine and there is no independent release of this song on there. I also checked her website, and nowhere did it refer to the song as a "single". Heartfox (talk) 03:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the message, and apologies again for the ping. I hope it was not too much of an annoyance. I appreciate that you bring up that point as it is another good point to further support the argument that this song was not a single. Aoba47 (talk) 04:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for that edit I made. I just wanted to point out that the press release and iTunes don't list or mention Hot Sugar as a single because it was promoted after the album's release. The song could still be a single without actually being sent to radio too... and yes, a music video does not automatically equate to a single release but it does mean that the song received significant promotion. I only added the single cover because its used as the cover for the song not only on Discogs, but both Genius and SoundCloud. I believe that there should still be a discussion on whether the song type should be "song" or "single". Fullmoon211 (talk) 04:18, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The edit should have not been made. If you wanted to raise these points, you should have done so here in this discussion. Open discussion is always good (and it is happening right now). These points should be discussed here rather than through edits being made directly to the article without addressing any of these concerns I had brought up. Neither Genius nor SoundCloud are official sources to support the single cover being legitimate. It is very likely that both websites just copied the artwork from Discogs directly.
The song did receive a solid amount of promotion. It was featured on Braxton Family Values and on Tamar and Vince. Tamar clearly wanted the song to get a single release. She wanted it as the first single and even was disappointed "The One" was put out as the second single instead of "Hot Sugar". However, like with the music video, this is not evidence of the song being a single. It may evidence to point at the possibility of it, but again, it is not strong enough evidence on its own.
I brought up the press release because there is official confirmation from the record label about each of the album's three singles, which makes the lack of any official confirmation for this song even more glaring. The press release was just an example. I have done thorough research on this song. I could not find any official confirmation on this song being named a single by the record label or being sent out to radio anytime after the album's release. To be blunt, there is just not solid evidence to support this song being a single. I welcome and encourage discussion. I just do not see it really going anywhere unless new evidence is supplied here. Aoba47 (talk) 04:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
