Talk:Hiroshi Miyamura

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Middle Initial

Want to suggest renaming this article to remove the middle initial. I'm not sure that having nickname with the same starting letter as your first name equals an initial. Seems like the article should either be named Hiroshi “Hershey” Miyamura or simply Hiroshi Miyamura. Thoughts? DCsansei (talk) 07:55, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

@DCsansei, Hiroshi "Hershey" Miyamura would be best. I note that the 2023 bill signed by the President uses this exact name. Thank you for notifying me. Best regards, -- Ooligan (talk) 09:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I would lean towards just "Hiroshi Miyamura" for the article name (which currently exists as a redirect) and just mention the nickname Hershey in the article lede and body.—Myasuda (talk) 15:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm okay with either! Probably lean to just the name without nickname for the simplicity but not sure if there's a applicable policy for this? DCsansei (talk) 13:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

MOS:NICKNAME discusses quoted nicknames. None of the examples have the quoted nickname in the article name itself, though there are a few examples in which the article uses the nickname rather than the birth name.—Myasuda (talk) 01:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

After being captured as a Prisoner of War (POW) his buddy called him "Hersh" (shortened from Hershey) from this 2017 LA Times story excerpt:

The Chinese guards kept prodding them with their rifle butts, and after 10 miles, they ordered Miyamura to put his friend down.

He winced and ignored them. They threatened to shoot him.

“Put me down, Hersh,” Annello said. “I can’t go on.”

The guards motioned that they were about to shoot.

“You got to keep going,” Annello said.

“I’m sorry, Joe,” said Miyamura.

So, there is an example of contemporary use (1951) of Hersh/ Hershey and it's current use in the 2023 law naming the Hiroshi “Hershey” Miyamura VA Clinic signed on October 2, 2023 by President Biden. That is 72 years of documented use of "Hershey."

Per MOS:QUOTENAME, "If a person is known by a nickname used in lieu of or in addition to a given name, and it is not a common hypocorism of one of their names, or a professional alias, it is usually presented between double quotation marks following the last given name or initial."

Also, the Congressional staff and attorneys did there research in preparation of this Bill that passed both houses of Congress and signed by the President. If "Hershey" was not substantiated by historical usage, it would not have been used to name a Veterans Administration healthcare facility. -- Ooligan (talk) 03:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

{{rfc|bio|style}} – RfC withdrawn: wrong forum, see WP:RFCNOT 06:29, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Given the disagreement, I'm going to start a RFC for feedback on what to rename the article between "Hiroshi Miyamura" or "Hiroshi "Hershey" Miyamura" DCsansei (talk) 03:29, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

@DCsansei, earlier you wrote in part, "... not sure if there's a applicable policy for this?" I included the more specifically related MOS:QUOTENAME above. -- Ooligan (talk) 03:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I believe WP:RM is the more applicable process. Curbon7 (talk) 04:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

DCsansei, I have withdrawn this RfC per WP:RFCNOT, as RfCs are not the proper method to decide the name for a page. Please feel free to start a move request (WP:RM). If or when you do, please start it in a new section (as you should for an RfC too). — HTGS (talk) 06:29, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Got it. DCsansei (talk) 12:15, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Myasuda Are you okay with Hiroshi "Hershey" Miyamura as Ooligan suggests? DCsansei (talk) 12:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

No, not really. Unless someone can show me some biographical pages with a quoted nickname in the article title.—Myasuda (talk) 12:45, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Started a move request as suggested. DCsansei (talk) 13:30, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 24 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 15:49, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

---

Hiroshi H. Miyamura → Hiroshi Miyamura – The current title doesn't quite make sense to me since adding an initial for his nickname, "Hershey", doesn't quite make sense to me. I believe it should either be named Hiroshi “Hershey” Miyamura or simply Hiroshi Miyamura. I don't have strong feelings either way but do feel it should be moved. Myasuda and Ooligan have both argued for one or the other, so I'm raising it here to get more visibility and hopefully get an agreement. DCsansei (talk) 13:29, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support (Summoned by bot) Guidelines seem ambiguous, but commonsense to me says says his 'real' name for article title and the nickname included in lead only. Either way, initialising his nickname in the article title is clearly factually wrong.Pincrete (talk) 05:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - based on the rationale of the OP.

  Netherzone (talk) 11:04, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support. Treating his nickname as a middle name, like the current title does, is definitely incorrect. (Looking at the sources, I'm inclined to blame the US Army Center for Military History for originally propagating that error, but it seems to have been fixed by now.) I believe that Hiroshi Miyamura is a preferable title to Hiroshi "Hershey" Miyamura, both because of WP:CONCISE and because the nickname doesn't appear to be in wide enough use to justify its inclusion in the article title directly; however, either would be an improvement over the status quo. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:15, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.