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Talk:Hajibala Abutalybov

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BLPN

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Archived discussion.[1] Morbidthoughts (talk) 21:16, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2022

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Hi mods, I've requested this page to be semi protected, as one of the users has been consistently removing the part written below. However that user managed to remove it once again just before the page got protected claiming that official US goverment documents are "not a good source". In reality, the removal of this port is simply an attempt to censor out the behavior of that official and is possibly coming from a group funded by Azerbaijan's goverment who's goal is to brigade wikipedia articles (you can see more here: https://twitter.com/fismailzade/status/1492462585756717058).

Please add this part to the page once again:

In 2005, Abutalybov told a visiting German delegation from Bavaria concerning Armenians and the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict: “Our goal is the complete elimination of Armenians. You, Nazis, already eliminated the Jews in the 1930s and 40s, right? You should be able to understand us.”[1][2][3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marlaube (talk • contribs) 13:42, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ The Caucasus: Frozen Conflicts and Closed Borders. U.S. Government Printing Office, June 18, 2008, p. 50
  2. ^ Thousands died for nothing? Armenia VS Azerbaijan. Le Journal International, May 28, 2020, retrieved July 25, 2020
  3. ^ T.J. Petrowski: Marxism and the National Question: Nagorno-Karabakh in Context, 2019
 Not done: Hello there! It is generally best practice to assume good faith regarding fellow editors; not cast aspersions as to their intent. The inclusion of the requested text has been added and then reverted by 3 separate editors (that I observe), 1 of which has been with the project since 2007. I don't mean to imply that seniority is better, but I'm convinced there is a reason for the reversion that isn't a group systematically trying to censor it. This particular content dispute has also recently been brought to WP:BLPN. I would definitely say that consensus is necessary here to move forward. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 04:22, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can you elaborate what type of sources would be of sufficient quality to re-add the deleted quotation? Humanatbest (talk) 09:59, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is a hoax. He never said such thing. Those 3 sources are unreliable, and cannot be used in a BLP article. This was discussed at BLP board. [2] A good source would be some kind of official minutes of the meeting, or another official document where this alleged speech was published. Grandmaster 11:13, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How is the US Government's Printing Office an unreliable source? It's printed as information for the US Committee on Foreign Affairs. It would be odd for the US government to mislead its own congress on diplomatic matters, to say the least. Daveboy2000 (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is a speech by a congressman. Not a reliable source for this kind of information. Grandmaster 11:21, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The initial user is now linking on Reddit and calling to brigade this page in order to geht "his" false information accepted. See https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/17skk4o/azeri_wikipedia_editor_keeps_removing_ex_deputy/ 2A02:8071:3E84:B860:54E5:9EF9:F1C1:2E8D (talk) 09:22, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the poster there doesn't call to brigade the page. 75.80.105.243 (talk) 16:18, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct - the editor is asking them for editing advice. I guess he/she is wishing for more sources. And has maybe a greater expectation of finding knowledgeable people on r/Armenia that I would have (they even have a moderator correctly named "Idontknowmuch")! But equally, a Wikipedia editor's cry of "hoax" is not an adequate reason for dismissing a quote - can Grandmaster present any actual sources to back up his "hoax" claim or any sources that state the cited sources for the quote are "unreliable"? If he can't, really his "hoax" objection has no validity. How does he KNOW it is a hoax? If it was said in front of a group of visiting Germans then surely there must be an original German source out there somewhere, or an original Azerbaijani one. But personally, I see actions as more revealing that quotes - if the "complete elimination of Armenians" is not a stated State goal of Azerbaijan it seem to have been remarkably successful at doing the unintended unintentionally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.221.22 (talk) 03:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ironically, a search for "Realny" + "Hacıbala Abutalıbov" only gives another thread on that same subreddit, from 2020. https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/j0v0or/our_goal_is_the_complete_elimination_of_armenians/ So my advice to the person wanting the quote is that this is currently not a hill worth dying for. There are plenty of more recent sourced events and quotes that better reveal the genocidal desires of Azerbaijan if that is what is intended by trying to get this single quote into this single obscure article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.221.22 (talk) 03:53, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please mind WP:FORUM. Wikipedia is not a place to discuss our personal opinions. The talk page is solely for discussion of edits to the article. I removed your last post that had no relation to the proposed edit in question. Regarding alleged Abutalybov statement, it cannot be found in any reliable source. There are no minutes of the alleged meeting, no direct media coverage, nothing. It was already discussed at WP:BLPN, and the community consensus was not to include the quote. [3] The claim seem to originate from a satirical piece in the now defunct Realny Azerbaijan newspaper, and that is not a serious source. Please also note that per WP:EXCEPTIONAL any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources, especially when it concerns a WP:BLP article. Grandmaster 09:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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