Talk:Goldberry

Goldberry has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: June 23, 2021. (Reviewed version).

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This page was proposed for deletion by Piotrus (talk · contribs) on 12 November 2019.

This article was nominated for merging with Tom Bombadil on 24 November 2019. The result of the discussion (permanent link) was Merge.

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1

Persephone

One of the various interpretations of Goldberry in the article is that she is based on Persephone, and that she is connected to the "rhythm of the seasons". Should we mention that Persephone is typically associated with the spring? :

"The myth of her abduction, her sojourn in the underworld, and her temporary return to the surface represents her functions as the embodiment of spring and the personification of vegetation, especially grain crops, which disappear into the earth when sown, sprout from the earth in spring, and are harvested when fully grown. " Dimadick (talk) 05:37, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All we need to include anything like this is a reliable, independent and preferably scholarly source that makes the connection. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:47, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Until then, any suggestion of such a link is Original Research. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was forgetting we'd already cited Taylor 2008 who reliably makes this claim. Adding unattributed text to talk pages is however unhelpful as it convincingly mimics WP:OR. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What unattributed text? This is the main description of Persephone from her own article. Seriously, you never click on a blue link? Dimadick (talk) 07:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPA. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do not respond to a question, when you have not even read it. I was talking about the sourced text in the article, not my own interpretation.

The quotation was entirely unattributed. As for the description of Persephone, I didn't follow the link for the good reason that I learnt about her in school. There was and is precisely no justification for such rudeness. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:32, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article states: "Taryne Jade Taylor associates Goldberry with the Greek myth of the goddess Persephone, for the way she is captured by Bombadil and its association with the rhythm of the seasons, as well as Étaín, a deity in Irish mythology associated with light.^[1] "

What I was asking was whether we should clarify why Persephone is associated with the changes of the seasons. Dimadick (talk) 07:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That additional step would definitely be original research in the context of this article, as we'd be trying to put together A and B to make C, that Goldberry is Spring. Once again, we'd really need a scholar to say that. Taylor 2008 does not mention "spring" at all. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Taylor, Taryne Jade (2008). Investigating the Role and Origin of Goldberry in Tolkien's Mythology. Mythlore. pp. 50–59. ISBN 978-2-271-06568-1.

[Investigating-1] Taylor, Taryne Jade (2008). Investigating the Role and Origin of Goldberry in Tolkien's Mythology. Mythlore. pp. 50–59. ISBN 978-2-271-06568-1.

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