Talk:Gingras (instrument)

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A fact from Gingras (instrument) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 June 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that according to second-century AD Greek rhetorician Athenaeus, the Phoenicians played a flute-like instrument called the gingras in their mourning rituals?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Gingras (instrument).

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 12:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that according to second-century AD Greek rhetorician Athenaeus, the Phoenicians used a flute-like instrument called the gingras in their mourning rituals, that produced a shrill and mournful tone? Source: Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 4.174
- ALT1: ... that according to second-century AD Greek rhetorician Athenaeus, the Phoenicians played a flute-like instrument called the gingras in their mourning rituals? Source: Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 4.174
- ALT2: ... that according to the second-century AD Greek rhetorician Athenaeus, the Phoenicians played a flute-like instrument known as the gingras, which produced a shrill and mournful tone? Source: Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 4.174
- Reviewed: Capitolium of Constantinople

Created by Elias Ziade (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 37 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

el.ziade (talkallam) 12:59, 8 May 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Starting review. Alex2006 (talk) 06:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - n

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: An interesting article on a little-known ancient instrument. The date of creation, length and references are correct (AGF on offline sources), and the qpq has been done. The article relies heavily on primary sources, but these are only quoted, not interpreted, so that's good. We have a staggering 49% earwigs score, but this is due to the copied fragment. Anyway, I think that you should mention who is the translator of these fragments, before I declare the article plagiarism free. The phrase about "Athenian banquets" is repeated, one of the two occurrences should be paraphrased. The hook is cited, but is rather long, I think it should be shortened and - above all - the language should be made more fluid. Regarding the "surviving ancient snippets", I understand what you mean, but it should be better explained for the reader: adding some context would help. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 07:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Alessandro57: thanks for the review. I have added both translators and the date of publication of the Atheneus translations, and removed the redundancy you pointed out. i have also added two alternative hooks. I will also try to introduce the "snippets" section.el.ziade (talkallam) 10:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alessandro57: Can you recheck?

@Elias Ziade:, thanks for your corrections. My concerns have been addressed,but re-reading the article, I think that some copyedit is needed. I am afraid that as a reviewer I am not allowed to do this. could you please try? Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 10:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alessandro57, Do you have any concerns regarding any of the DYK criteria, if so please be specific. The quoted passages are from works that were published almost a hundred years ago, they are referenced, and the translators mentioned. Is there anything else to address?

@DYK admins: What happens now? Should someone else take over this review? Please advise. el.ziade (talkallam) 13:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alessandro57 can you clarify what kind of copyediting you're looking for. I'm guessing you're looking for a level of prose quality beyond what is requried by WP:DYKCRIT. In specific, see WP:DYKNOT, where it says Articles ... do not have to be of very high quality. If it fails some specific criteria, that needs to get fixed. If it's just that the prose could be better, that's not something to hold up an approval. RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also add that, generally, being the reviewer doesn't disqualify you from copyediting. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK @RoySmith, Theleekycauldron, and Elias Ziade:, I tried to do some copyediting myself. The article now is good to go. Alex2006 (talk) 10:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @RoySmith:, @Theleekycauldron: for your quick intervention and advice. el.ziade (talkallam) 13:26, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, regarding [[lament]]ations I didn't know you could do that. I knew you could put an "s" or "es" at the end of a link, but I always assumed that was a special case for making something plural. Neat. RoySmith (talk) 14:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]