Talk:Gibuld

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Arian?

According to Schubert's Das älteste germanische Christentum oder der Sogenannte "Arianismus" der Germanen (1909:32), Gibuld was an Arian. As a source, he notes: "Eugipp. vita Sever. c.19". I read Chapter 19 of Eugippius' Life of Severinus, but I didn't see anything which would confirm whether Gibuld was an Arian. The "New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" (reprinted in 1951), states "[the Alemanni] prince, Gibuld, was an Arian, probably converted by Goths". Are there other sources which confirm this? --Aryaman (talk) 21:51, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

this is very interesting. We can at least mention the sources you found so far. But I have serious doubts about the Arian claim. --dab (𒁳) 14:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just found the Reallexikon entry on Gibuld pg.69. I think some of this is probably worth working into the article. Have a look and see if you agree. --Aryaman (talk) 14:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had just found that myself and have absorbed its main content into the article. No Arianism afaics. Ths source of the Arianism claim appears to be Schubert (1909), who is quite clearly making a mistake as he attributes the claim to a passage which I agree cannot be interpreted to contain anything about Gibuld's confession. --dab (𒁳) 15:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I tried to dig up information on the author of the encyclopaedia entry here, a certain "G. Bossert", but have not had any real luck. If it's Gustav Bossert, then we're dealing with an historian of church history, and I feel safe dismissing the claim altogether. --Aryaman (talk) 15:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

little enough is known about this king so that any detail on scholarly discussion has a place. I can well see us discussing this claim without giving it too much credibility. Perhaps something like this,

"Alemannia in the mid 5th century was situated to the east to two Arian kingdoms in Gaul, that of the Burgundians and that of the Visigoths. Some scholars (Schubert 1909) have speculated that due to Visigothic influence Gibuld may also have adopted the Arian confession, while it is clear that the greater part of the Alamanni population remained pagan well into the 6th century."

--dab (𒁳) 16:06, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. In good faith, I dug as deep as the internet allows me in an attempt to substantiate any connection to Arianism. All I could find were sources - scholarly enough - which repeat the claim of a general link between the Alamanni and Arianism but give no further substantiation.

Turk, Eleanor L. (1999). The History of Germany. Westport: Greenwood Press. ISBN: 0-313-30274-X. pg. 25.

Winkler, Mary G. (1983). Art, Patronage and Civil Life in a Reformed City: 16th Century Zurich. Doctoral Dissertation. [1]

The last one is particularly curious, as she writes (pg. 14):

In the fourth century, the Arian Alamanni won possession of the settlement [of Turicum] and for a time held their religious observances on the site where the Wasserkirche now stands.

If you're surprised at that last bit, you're not the only one. ;) Judging by the several mentions, this connection between the Alamanni and Arianism must have hit some publication with a wider circulation than Schubert's book, but what it was, I don't know yet. Anyway, I think your summary fits the bill. --Aryaman (talk) 16:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

hm, wow, now I really wonder what is at the bottom of this. The "Arian Alamanni" thing would be a point to be discussed at the Alamanni article. I have always wondered what evidence this alleged Gothic influence on the Alamanni is ultimately based on. Now I begin to wonder whether it is altogether a "ghost meme" (as in, the concept of ghost-word in philology) that was sort of spontaneously generated in scholarship. --dab (𒁳) 20:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

so, the strange claim in the 1983 Rice University dissertation appears to be referenced to Potter, Zwingli, CUP (1976), p. 48. I wonder what is there. It is possible that the 1983 work is simply shoddy. --dab (𒁳) 20:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

German name

Dbachmann (talk · contribs) and Varoon Arya (talk · contribs), guys you two did an excellent job on the article, but I have a doubt about it. I can't find any source that shows *Gebō-wulþuz "gift-splendour" as the possible origin for Gebavult. Could you please say where did you find it? I can see the german phonemes in the word, but we need a footnote showing it.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 02:13, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]