Talk:Four Loom Weaver

As I understand it: A Four Loom weaver is power loom weaver using a 4 Lancashire Looms in a Lancashire weaving shed. They probably would be Horrocks, or Howard and Bullough. The rewrite of Four loom weaver refers to the years of the Lancashire Cotton Famine, when the weaver was totally dependent on his income from the millowner- unlike the handloom weaver who would probable have a vegetable patch ans a few chickens. The Cotton Famine was caused by the cottonm trade being stopped in the American Civil War.The Lancashire man- three generations in the mill could not comprehend how the cotton stopped, and still had the quaint belief that the great man (PM perhaps) only needed to tell the shipowners to bring in some more cotton. The theory that it is a corruption of Poor is balderdash. In Lancashire Poor (poo-er) just doesn't sound like Four- (f'er). It it is closer to Power (p´er)- which would make sense. Hand looms had died out about 1820. It's a shame that such an evocative song is being so severly abused. Would one of you Hands in the Ear buffs like to confirm this and add this to the article. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi-- can anyone explain the "if I'd just held my tongue" bit? -- March 25, 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.99.76 (talk) 19:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I will have a go, though I didn't grow up speaking this dialect. This is supposition not backed by reference. The verse says

Old Billy O' Bent, he were telling us long

We mayn't had better times if I'd nobbut held m' tongue.

Well, I held m' tongue til I near lost m' breath,

And I feel in m' hear that I'II soon clem to death

The Norton version gives an earlier set of words the Poor Cotton Weaver which refers to the hand loom weaving. This contains the name Billy O'Bent - I can't work out what that means. In that version it is the parson who is saying- Shut up- if you stop moaning it will be better. This is deeply political. It is the classic High Tory Anglican attitude- that the boss is a good man and he would do better for you if you trusted him, and stopped wasting his time by being critical. If you apply that to the version under discussion- two generations later when the Four Loom worker is a mill employee- this man has suddenly lost all income, and is being fobbed off with the same argument by the desparate mill owner. This man, was probably one of 39% of the workforce who hadn't joined the union, because he didn't want to cause trouble. He is doubting his action- as keeping his head down just hasn't worked. (Either that, or it is a parody). These folk were the bane of the union officials life. There were always happy to accept improved wages and conditions that the union had negotiated but would never join because it might antagonise the boss. Old Billy O' Bent were such a man. (Sorry I'm slipping into dialect here)--ClemRutter (talk) 10:01, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

There is also a version called the Oldham Weaver in Mary Barton, by Mrs Gaskell. see: Gaskell, Elisabeth Cleghorn (1848, This edition 2004). Mary Barton. Kessinger Publishing,. p. 408. ISBN ISBN 1419132989, 9781419132988. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); Check date values in: |date= (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) --ClemRutter (talk) 14:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

A year later: I see no-one has touched the article so I am flippinf the talk page over.--ClemRutter (talk) 21:37, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Poor Loom Weaver

I've removed the following section, which may be true but cites no sources and looks like original research:

The theory that Four Loom Weaver is a corruption of Poor Loom Weaver is balderdash. In Lancashire dialect Poor (poo-er) just doesn't sound like Four- (f'er). That is closer to Power (p´er)- which would make sense. Hand looms for plain calicos had died out by 1820.

Psammead (talk) 12:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)