Talk:February 2023 Nablus incursion

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Israel Palestine Collaboration

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also {{Palestine-Israel enforcement}}, the ArbCom-authorized discretionary sanctions, the log of blocks and bans, and Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. You can discuss the project at its talk page.Israel Palestine CollaborationWikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationTemplate:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationIsrael Palestine Collaboration

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / Middle East / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

On 22 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2023 Nablus clashes to 2023 Nablus incursion. The result of the discussion was moved.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Requested move 22 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Nablus clashes → 2023 Nablus incursion:

France 24 calls it a "raid" in the title and "the latest Israeli incursion" in the body of its article.

Middle East Eye called it "a major Israeli incursion".
WAFA also calls it an incursion.
The Guardian does like France 24.

"Raid" has raised issues in the Jenin discussion (over at Talk:2023 Jenin incursion) earlier this year due to possible pro-Israel POV, and sources do refer to it as an incursion. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 13:25, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Bestagon, are you sure this needs a proposal? You and the other editor moved the page at around the same time, so maybe they didn't notice your move. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:30, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nythar, I discussed the issue on the editor's talk page, and they do seem to have noticed, but claimed that sources do not use the term "incursion". The discussion can be found here. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 13:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Newly created, the current title is WP:POINTy WP:POVPUSH by the article creator in view of Talk:2023 Jenin incursion#Requested move 1 February 2023, a recent discussion in a very similar set of circumstances at 2023 Jenin incursion. Creator was asked about this at their talk page but appears to prefer this discussion take place (again). Selfstudier (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support proposal. As shown by the nominator, sources use the term and it maintains consistency. Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
More sources use "clashes." Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:50, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
entered is a synonym for incursion

Independent- Israeli troops on Wednesday entered a major Palestinian city in the occupied West Bank in a rare, daytime arrest operation

Haaretz- Israeli army says it entered Nablus to arrest wanted militants Selfstudier (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's another "incursion" FT "The incursion into the city of Nablus is one of the bloodiest in recent years" Selfstudier (talk) 18:44, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. @The Bestagon: Middle East Eye calls it not only incursion, but clashes, as well.

Here's the sources using "clashes," and not "incursion": BBC, Reuters, The Times of Israel, Israel Hayom, Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera, i24news. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:48, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Triggerhippie4: Wait a minute. Is this article about the incursion or the clash? Those are two separate things. The Al Jazeera article calls it both an incursion and a clash because of this. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

it's the same event. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:54, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli forces first moved into the city of Nablus and then destroyed a building (I think) and killed two suspects. The clashes occurred afterwards (not sure how long it took). So the article is about both the incursion and the clash. Which title do we choose? — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:58, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone can pull up a bunch of sources and say, look, they use (raid, incursion, killings, clashes, arrest, operation, whatever). Triggerhippie would be saying "raid" if not for the recent discussion. NDESC is the operative thing here and we already decided it in that discussion. Selfstudier (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What happened was an incursion which led to clashes, just like in Jenin. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 14:18, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's NYT - "Gun battle" "firefight" "major IDF operation" and

CNN "unusual daytime raid" "ensuing clashes" "fighting"

This is just reporters trying to report an event not calling the event something specific. Selfstudier (talk) 14:18, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Per the Jenin consensus, and stating the obvious. The 'clashes' were a symptom of the incursion. Unsurprisingly, the attack provoked a reaction, big surprise! Clashes is a plainly insufficient descriptive term to sum up a heavily armed incursion into a primarily civilian area that results in the death of 9 people and the injury of 100+ others: more like incursion and/or massacre. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:16, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The Israeli attack on Nablus is operationally identical to the earlier one on Jenin, where the various alternatives were assayed and incursion was decided on. Given the alteration under the new government of WB military procedures, we are going to get, in all probability, more of the same as the new policy is applied, and terminological switches from article to article are ridiculous. The clash, further, is one part of the operation, which, as sources become available, will be described in detail, as a military incursion.Nishidani (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CNN doing exactly that, "A massive Israeli military incursion on Wednesday targeting three suspected militants.." Selfstudier (talk) 22:14, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There'sd a lot of detail in the Barghouti article if someone cares to add background (including the new ultraright policy) from 2022 with a series of asssassinations of similar kind. She states they had refused to turn themselves in, meaning, as othger evidwence shows, that they had been alerted, ergo 'extrajudicial assassination'. I'm too busy (dealing with people targeted who did not resist).

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: changed to two dab disambiguation

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 14:37, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]