Talk:Fashion house (disambiguation)

Unneeded

The new hatnotes added to Fashion House and Haute couture would make this disambiguation page unneeded for navigation. I'm going to add a prod tag. -- JHunterJ (talk) 22:33, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Necessary

It is necessary to have a individual page for Fashion House as a standalone term. It is not a haute couture preserve, but is used to describe any company or establishment that exclusively or primarily produces fashion or fashion accessories.Mabalu (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Link to hits for "fashion house" on Google News, showing that the term is widely used for non-haute couture designers.] Mabalu (talk) 00:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've deleted the deletion tag - please could Fashion house be released from automatic redirection to haute couture, so I can put together a proper page for it? Thanks very much. Mabalu (talk) 00:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This term hardly needs its own page, and the "entries" you have added are either redundant of each other or not notable. The haute couture articles basically defines "fashion house" in the lead pgh, Wikipedia is not a dictionary.— TAnthony^Talk 01:52, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With all respect, haute couture and fashion houses are NOT one and the same thing. There are houses in haute couture, but haute couture refers to a very select few designers and their associated businesses, who adhere to VERY, very strict regulations and requirements as laid out by the French. "Fashion house" basically means ANY business devoted to fashion. Fashion houses are not automatically haute couture, so there is no earthly reason for them to automatically direct to "haute couture". A fashion house is a business that exclusively or near-exclusively produces ANYTHING to do with clothing or accessories.

For example, Prada is one of a great number of design houses that would be (and are frequently described as) considered fashion houses due to their major commercial presence. It is a major player in the fashion world, but it is NOT a haute couture house, and as far as I am aware, has no affilation to any haute couture businesses. It is ready-to-wear. Another example of a major so-called "fashion house" that is not haute couture is Burberry's. They are an international brand with a strong image, and retail outlets around the world under their own name. They are often considered to be a fashion house, but there is no rationale whatsoever for them to be included under the "haute couture" umbrella. They do not produce custom-made clothing, they do not have Paris workshops, etc. etc. To link fashion house automatically to haute couture is to imply that every common and garden brand-name that has made a name for itself is automatically haute couture. A fashion house is a VERY distinct entity to a couture house. Mabalu (talk) 02:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you, you just need to back it up with sources before you worry about the page names and redirects. The paragraph you just wrote here is very interesting but completely unsupported.— TAnthony^Talk 02:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm aware of that - I need to find the references and put something together. It may take a few days. This was off the top of my head, hence the lack of support/references, which would be present in the actual entry. Mabalu (talk) 02:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course I didn't mean that you were expected to cite this talk page comment, but I was trying to make a point. It's just that as it stands now, this disambiguation page has no reason to exist because its function is not to define words, but to provide alternative paths.— TAnthony^Talk 02:31, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A quick look on Factiva or google shows "Burberry, the UK fashion house" and "Prada fashion house". It seems reasonable to allow people to navigate to the these articles from a disambiguation page, not sure if an article on Fashion houses is required though.--Commander Keane (talk) 03:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on where Fashion house should redirect to should be held on Talk:Fashion house. If it is felt that there is no primary topic for "fashion house", please follow WP:RM in requesting that this disambiguation page be moved to the base name. Base name redirects to (disambiguation) pages are malplaced disambiguations. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Posted this on Talk:fashion house as well, but worth repeating here - it's so simple that I really ought to have thought of it first. Why not redirect fashion house to fashion designers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mabalu (talk • contribs) 17:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(A wise person once told me not to ask a rhetorical question unless you're ready for a rhetorical answer.)
Because fashion designers redirects in turn to fashion design.
Going beyond rhetoric, all double Rdrs have to be bypassed so they redirect instead of dumping the user at the Rdr page. And it finally occurs to me that one reason for setting the limit on the length of Rdr chains at one lk (rather than, say, two or five) is that "residence" and "house" are synonyms, as are "house" and "accommodate", but "residence" and "accommodate" not synonyms. Rdr'g fashion house to fashion design would not be nearly as bad as the reverse, but WP:WinD, so deleting fashion house, or making it a Rdr to Fashion House, would not be a neglect of our mission, while Rdr'g fashion house to fashion design is rude and confusing behavior twd our users.
--Jerzy•t 20:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

* Works for me. I like the note at the top of Fashion House about looking up the other page for information on fashion businesses. Mabalu (talk) 21:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]