Talk:Eva Copa/GA2

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 17:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Overview

• I'll take on this review again, noting that I quickfailed the article at Talk:Eva Copa/GA1 because of issues with verifiability which have been resolved in conversation with the nominator. See the discussion at User_talk:Krisgabwoosh#Your_GA_nomination_of_Eva_Copa_2 for more details. OK Krisgabwoosh let's try again! Comments most likely coming tomorrow. Mujinga (talk) 17:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• No copyvio flagged up
• pictures / ogg / signature are appropriately licensed
• article is stable, focused, broand and neutral. sources are reliable.

Early life and career

• Where is "the Luis Espinal Camps Educational Unit" referenced? I only see "Estudió en el colegio Luis Espinal y de tanto reemplazar a su padre en las reuniones de su zona terminó ella misma siendo una dirigente." in paginasiete.bo.

Luis Espinal Camps Educational Unit is the full name of the school, though a quick glance at Google Maps shows that there are two schools with that name. In the External Links section, her official government biography "Portrait of Mónica Eva Copa Murga" specifies that Luis Espinal Camps Educational Unit is correct but I'm not certain whether that would be allowed as a source. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Well it doesn't matter if you know that Luis Espinal Camps Educational Unit is the full name, there's apparently no wikipage to link to so then the source needs to show the name, otherwise you are doing original research. the official government biography is fine as a source, but only as a self-source, ie only for noncontroversial facts, like the name of her school ... so please do add that. Mujinga (talk) 15:10, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. I put the ref in the infobox. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:11, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

The infobox should be summarising what is in the article, so the ref should be on the name in the article Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Alright. I placed it at the end of the paragraph with the other two citations so as to not make it appear as though the first two sentences only use her Senate page as a source. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:51, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

What you've done is strictly correct but for me having three refs on the end of a long paragraph is not best practice, so i would suggest something like the following (when [1] is her governmental site but obvs that won't then be ref 1 anymore if it's not used first, the example is just for illustration of my point), also because as i mentioned somewhere but forgot to add yesterday, I'd also like to see a ref on the sentence for her date of birth ...

Eva Copa was born on 3 January 1987 in El Alto, La Paz, the penultimate of seven children born to Clementina Murga, an artisan from Pucarani, and her husband, Ignacio Copa.[2][3] She was raised in the Pasankeri barrio of La Paz, along the border with El Alto, where she attended the Luis Espinal Camps Educational Unit.[1] While still a teenager, during the gas conflict of the early 2000s, she participated in popular protests that toppled the government of President Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada. Upon graduating, she hoped to attend the Higher University of San Andrés but, due to the high tuition cost, she instead went to the Public University of El Alto (UPEA). While studying for a degree in social work, she participated in various student activist groups, eventually rising to become executive secretary of the Student Center and general secretary of the Local University Federation (FUL) of the UPEA. In this position, she represented the UPEA as a delegate to the Executive Committee of the Bolivian University's National Congress.[1][2][3]

Mujinga (talk) 09:00, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. Additionally, her date of birth is cited in Correo del Sur which is now at the end of the same sentence. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 16:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• Where is "an Aymara artisan from Pucarani." referenced? As mentioned in GA/1.

Copa herself is of Aymara descent but the given source does not specify from which parent. I elected to just shorten it to "artisan from" rather than "Aymara artisan from". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Please point me to where artisan is cited Mujinga (talk) 15:11, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

From Página Siete: "Su madre, oriunda de Pucarani, es artesana, de las que hacen mantas, ponchos y otras prendas con lana de alpaca", "[Her mother, a native of Pucarani, is an artisan who makes blankets, ponchos and other garments with alpaca wool]". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Brilliant thanx! Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• Where is "(the first in her family to receive one)" referenced? As mentioned in GA/1.

"(the first in her family to receive one)" is not referenced. Removed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Chamber of Senators

• Link to Plurinational Legislative Assembly.

Now links to Plurinational Legislative Assembly. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Her nomination was atypical due to her youth as the registration of candidates for Senate under thirty years of age was uncommon, even for the MAS" is a bit hard to read and mentions age twice. Suggest something like: "Her nomination was atypical since most candidates for Senate are over 30".

Shortened to "Her nomination was atypical as the registration of candidates for Senate under thirty years of age was uncommon". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "led her to maintain a low profile for the majority of her senatorial". Suggest: "led her to keep a low profile for the majority of her senatorial".

"keep" instead of "maintain" as suggested. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "succeeding Jeanine Áñez". Suggest making this a new sentence beginning: "She succeeded Jeanine Áñez,".

Changed "succeeding Jeanine Áñez" to "She succeeded Jeanine Áñez", creating a new sentence as suggested. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "in order to minutes later claim succession to the presidency". Since we just had succeeding/succeeded, suggest: "in order to launch her presidential campaign" or whatever works.

Removed "in order to minutes later" as "briefly assumed the position" should be sufficient. Additionally, hopefully it should be clearer now that this is the sentence that mentions that Áñez became president: "She succeeded Jeanine Áñez, who two days prior had briefly assumed the position in order claim succession to the presidency". If there's a better way to mention that Áñez became president of the Senate and then used its position in the constitutional line of succession to make herself president, let me know. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

"had briefly assumed the position in order claim succession to the presidency" doesn't scream she then became president to me, i think it needs emphasising for the lay reader, so how about "had briefly assumed the position before becoming president"? Mujinga (talk) 09:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

That works. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 16:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "some MAS sectors supporting Morales". Suggest: "some MAS supporters of Morales".

I believe "MAS sectors" is preferable to "MAS supporters" as the former is meant to indicate things like trade unions and regional wings of the party while the latter implies individual people. If there is a better word than "sectors", let me know. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Sectors reads weird to me, how about groups as used below? Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

That works. Changed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• "in the Cochabamba tropics". Is tropics needed? Could it be "in Cochabamba"? (I'm speaking without knowledge here, just as a general reader).

You're correct, "tropics" is unnecessary. The confusion stems from the fact that "Cochabamba tropics" may refer to the "Six Federations of the Cochabamba Tropics", a MAS-aligned trade union, though this does not seem to be the case here. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "denounced harassment from MAS groups". Suggest: "denounced harassment from these MAS groups".

Added "these" to "MAS groups". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "By the time of the renewal of the Senate directive on 21 January 2020, however, efforts to replace Copa failed to come to fruition". Suggest: " By the time of the renewal of the Senate directive on 21 January 2020, efforts to replace Copa had failed to come to fruition".

Changed as suggested. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "extend itself in power". Suggest: "prolong its term", if I understand right.

Changed "extend itself in power" to "prolong its mandate". Used "mandate" instead of "term" as the latter indicates a pre-defined term while the former indicates a period of time that isn't strictly defined, which is more accurate when discussing the transitional government. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

great, thanx for clarification Mujinga (talk) 09:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "for which she asked if the president 'know[s] that lying is a sin?'". Suggest just cutting this, or rephrase.

The mention of "lying is a sin" is not strictly necessary. I originally chose to include it because most sources point to that quote as the most important part of Copa's letter to the president and it was the big headline at the same. I'll leave it up to you whether or not it's substantial enough to keep. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

By all means keep it but please rephrase to make it read better. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Ended up just removing it as it doesn't fit organically into the paragraph. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

reads good now Mujinga (talk) 09:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• somewhere around here you should state for readers like me that Jeanine_Áñez had become president.

Already addressed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:38, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "was also one of friction" - "was tense"?

Replaced "friction" with "animosity", hopefully that's better. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "We are not perfect, we could have made mistakes, but we leave with a clear conscience" - this needs introducign with "She added" or "She finished by saying" or whatever works.

Added "She added". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Mayor of El Alto

• "El MAS anuncia a Zacarías Maquera como candidato a alcalde de El Alto; organizaciones sociales insisten con Eva Copa" is being used to reference a big chunk of text, so it's good point to stop and check referencing:

• "Despite being seen as the clear frontrunner for the nomination, with wide civic support" - not in source.

Changed the clear frontrunner" to "one of the main frontrunners" and added two citations. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• Rodolfo Machaca is in source, but needs identifying here.

Specified that Machaca is the leader of the MAS' national directorate. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Great General Headquarters of El Alto" - maybe also put in the original Gran Cuartel General de la ciudad de El Alto.

Though the General Headquarters doesn't have its own article, most other articles on Bolivian labor unions use the translated name: (COB, CSUTCB, FEJUVE). This union also doesn't seem to go by any acronym. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Cool. Thanx for answer. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• " Leader Bernardo Huanca" what sort of leader?

Specified that Huanca is a "union" leader. "Executive of the Single Federation of Workers in Meat and Related Branches (Futecra)" is his full title but is probably too long. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanx. It's cool like that. Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• El Alto driver's - in En would it be El Alto drivers' union?

Driver's "unions". Note: Is it "driver's union" or "drivers' union"? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Drivers'. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Fixed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• (J.A.LLALLA.L.P.) - not in source, seems unnecessary?

J.A.LLALLA.L.P. is the party acronym but isn't in the source and isn't necessary either. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "for violating its organic statute". Sounds weird, can you rephrase?

Kept organic statute but linked to organic law. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Nice. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• "At the same time, she stated that she had not left the MAS and would leave the decision whether or not to remove her from the party to them.. The MAS did exactly that" needs rephrasing.

Reworded: "At the same time, she stated that she had not left the MAS and would leave the decision whether or not to remove her from the party to them. The MAS did exactly that" to "At the same time, she stated that she had not renounced her membership in the MAS and left to them the decision whether or not to revoke it. Shortly thereafter,". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Left to them or left to it? MAS seems singular to me. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Correct, "it" is the right word. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:38, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• There are some quotes from "El MAS expulsa a la expresidenta del Senado boliviano Eva Copa":
  • wikipedia: "[the] MAS will always be in my heart" - article: "el MAS siempre va a estar en mi corazón" - ok
  • wikipedia: "continue to be on the left" - article: "pero siempre voy a seguir siendo de izquierda" - ok
  • wikipedia: "build a new political project where young people have opportunities to emerge" - article "construir un nuevo proyecto político donde los jóvenes tengan oportunidades para surgir" - ok
  • the spanish should be added to the reference as a |quotation (and likewise elsewhere).

In terms of quotes, how do you suggest adding multiple different quotes to the reference. Is "[...]" sufficient? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Yup if you mean [...] to indicate part has been chopped out Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

I mean more in terms of separating multiple different quotes. Would it be something like this? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

yes! can also do that for " the new mayor called for "unity and reconciliation" " and " Jallalla leader Leopoldo Chui announced that the civic group had chosen to expel Copa from its ranks for her "betrayal" of the city and the political organization " and " Copa similarly rejected a return to the MAS, stating that she would "never again" be a member of the party, despite the rapprochement between herself and President Luis Arce through their collaborations in combating the COVID-19 pandemic. "I have other projects", she affirmed, indicating that she would look into forming her own bloc " and " Apaza confirmed this, stating that her campaign slogan RenuEva "is already there" and that she would seek to register her political platform with the Supreme Electoral Tribunal under that acronym.[41]" ... anywhere there are translated quotes in the body there should be original text in the citation Mujinga (talk) 12:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Side note: When quoting just in general (e.g. quoting the article itself, not what a person is saying). Should the quote always be in the native language? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

• "younger generations, towards Morales" - "younger generations and towards Morales"?

"younger generations, towards Morales" is correct. Rather than two factors for Copa's victory (Younger generations were discontent and Morales picked candidates) it was one factor (Younger generations were discontent with Morales picking candidates). Perhaps needs better phrasing. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I'm still finding that sentence hard to parse. Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Changed to "discontent within MAS bases, particularly younger generations, who took issue with Morales' handpicking". Hopefully that's better. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

works for me! Mujinga (talk) 09:08, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "a platform that proposed" - "a platform that offered"?

"Offered" rather than "proposed". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "by the Municipal Council. From that date, the municipal government began a citywide awareness campaign promoting vaccinations and compliance with health measures". Suggest: "by the municipal council. From that date, it began a citywide awareness campaign promoting vaccinations and compliance with health measures".

My understanding is to capitalize institutions when directly referring to it (The Department of State / The Municipal Council) and to put it in lowercase when speaking more generally (as municipal council). In this case, it's specifically referring to the El Alto Municipal Council. Perhaps I'm wrong about this. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Ok, and what do you think about cutting the second ref? Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Do you mean everything after "sale of the substance"? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:38, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

no sorry i've muddied the waters here, i meant i don't like the repetition of Municipal Council then municipal government, that's why i was suggesting putting the sentences together and making "municipal government" into "it" Mujinga (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Merged sentences: "by the Municipal Council which, from that date, began" Krisgabwoosh (talk) 16:19, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "city's councillor's and assembly members" - city's councillors and assembly members.

Changed "councillor's" to "councillors". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "with the TSE under that acronym". Probably better to say "with the Supreme Electoral Tribunal under that acronym".

Supreme Electoral Tribunal (TSE) is already mentioned under the "Election" section so I chose to just put TSE the next time I mentioned it. If you feel that they're too far apart, I'll go ahead and change it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes that's what I meant. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Added the full name. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• As already mentioned, I'd like to see the stats in Electoral history referenced.

Stats in electoral history are already referenced. A citation to the 2014 and 2021 statistics are on the table under the "Ref." column. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh did I miss that!? Thanks for explaining. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Lead

• "social worker" not mentioned in body - she studied social work, but still not sure if this needs mentioning in lead. "Bolivian former student leader and politician" also works.
• Explain MAS on first mention. I.E. after Movement for Socialism.

Could you clarify on "explain MAS"? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure - you say and Movement for Socialism, but then next refer to it as MAS but for most readers this will be confusing so you need to say Movement for Socialism (MAS) on first mention. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Gotcha. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• Copa headed the "conciliatory wing" - why the quotes, who said that?

No one in particular. It's just a general term that was used by many outlets at the time. Would adding "so-called" for "so-called 'conciliatory wing'" be better? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:38, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

if you say Copa headed the so-called "conciliatory wing" then i would expect this to be mentioned in the body with some citaions, whereas right now in the body it says "Despite the confrontational stance of the more radical sectors of the MAS, Copa took a conciliatory position towards the interim government", with no mention of wings or outlets Mujinga (talk) 09:11, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Changed to: "Copa cooperated with the transitional government in convoking new elections, but also remained critical of what she viewed as its undemocratic tendencies". Removed "conciliatory" entirely. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 15:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Her decision to present her candidacy on behalf of the Jallalla La Paz civic group resulted in her expulsion from the party." - this doesn't summarise the text.

Could you clarify on why "Her decision to present her candidacy" doesn't summarize? Do you mean that it needs to be shorter or longer? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

I mean "Her decision to present her candidacy on behalf of the Jallalla La Paz civic group resulted in her expulsion from the party." doesn't summarize "Less than a year into her term, on 26 August 2021, Jallalla leader Leopoldo Chui announced that the civic group had chosen to expel Copa from its ranks for her "betrayal" of the city and the political organization. According to Chui, Copa's candidacy was predicated on the agreement that her administration would coordinate all management aspects with Jallalla, a promise she had failed to comply with".

Ah, the sentence actually refers to her being expelled from MAS for presenting her candidacy as a member of Jallalla not to her being expelled from Jallalla. Should I just specify that it was MAS she was expelled from or also add that she was additionally removed from Jallalla later? Perhaps both? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

oh i see, yes this is confusing and needs clarifying, I'd say your "Perhaps both" option is best Mujinga (talk) 09:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Changed: "from the party" to "from the MAS' ranks". Added: "Months into her term, Copa was ousted from Jallalla due to political disagreements with its leader but maintained a majority of supporters on the city's municipal council, conforming the so-called "RenuEva" bloc". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 16:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• "a harsh repudiation of the MAS in its historic center of support." Where is this cited below?

Changed "harsh repudiation of the MAS" to "significant electoral defeat for the MAS". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• "she was inaugurated as El Alto's youngest-ever and second female mayor" - where are these claims cited?

"Youngest-ever" and "second female" lack citations. Removed the former as that is unverifiable but kept the latter as it follows that Copa would be the second female mayor if Soledad Chapetón was the first. Would a citation stating that Chapetón was the first female mayor be sufficient to justify stating that Copa is the second? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

If secondary sources don't mention this, I don't see why we should. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Removed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

General

• Per MOS:PERCENT percent should be used, not "%" except in the table

Changed "%" to "percent". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Nice. We are now MOS compliant. Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. Hopefully most of the fixes are adequate and you can clarify on suggestions I failed to understand. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies, in future would it be ok to answer each comment below it? i had to scroll up and down and found a few questions which you hadn't answered and might otherwise get lost. Mujinga (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Ah yes, sorry about that. Probably not as helpful now but I'll go ahead and reformat it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Blimey thanks for refactoring, that must have taken some work. I did see yesterday you were doing minor fixes to my edits (fixing spelling and indenting) and I wanted to say I'd rather you ask before refactoring my comments, but then you've now done such a wholesale job I'm impressed. I was going to mention Wikipedia:Colons and asterisks but you are probably aware of it already. So thanks for doing that and the bolding, but in future as a general rule (to be ignored on occasion) I'd say it'd best to check with other editors first before changing their comments Mujinga (talk) 08:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh gosh sorry about that. I reorganized the whole text as one so I guess it didn't cross my mind that it was written by two different users. Apologies. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 15:46, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Second sweep done, back to nominator for comments then I'll want to do another read through to check the prose. Mujinga (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Third sweep done, back to nominator again Mujinga (talk) 09:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Great I've given the article another read and it's good shape now, nice work. I've made some copyedits, feel free to review and change. I'd just like the quotes to be put in original language in the citations as discussed above, then we are done. Mujinga (talk) 12:54, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Quotes have been added into the refs. Hopefully the article should be good to go now. Thank you so much for your time and effort in conducting this review! Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:29, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Nice one for putting in the work, second time's the charm! Congrats on the good article. Mujinga (talk) 10:21, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.