Talk:Ethiopian nationalism

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sleuthsr21. Peer reviewers: Donkask.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Problems

I think it is important to stress that Rastafarian thought is quite distinct from Ethiopian nationalism. Ethiopian nationalism stresses the particularities of Ethiopian culture/history, negating the African heritage and influence. Ethiopian nationalism is, in essence, inherently contradictory to pan-Africanism or Black nationalism. --Soman (talk) 11:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Rastafarian thought is connected with Ethiopian nationalism - it views Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie as having been the reincarnation of Jesus and Rastafarians use Ethiopian national symbols - including the Ethiopian flag and the Lion of Judah. Where is your evidence that Ethiopian nationalism is universally contradictory to pan-Africanism or Black nationalism? Here is a source on Rastafari culture and Ethiopia: "Rastafarians believe that Ethiopia is the Promised Land and that it is Heaven on Earth"[1]. And here is another article for prominent Black nationalist and pan-Africanist leader Marcus Garvey who regarded Ethiopian monarchs as "black man's God" and the "Messiah returned".[2]. Plus, pan-African colours used by many African states are green, yellow, and red in homage to Ethiopia. Certainly not all black nationalists agree with Ethiopianism and Rastafarianism - especially not Nation of Islam supporters due to Ethiopianism's and Rastafarianism's implicit advocacy of Christianity. But the issue here is about Ethiopianism and Rastafarianism in relation to Ethiopian nationalism.--R-41 (talk) 17:34, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I will try to add sources for rewriting the lede. However, what you describe is the Rastafarian fascination with Ethiopia. This is a one-way street, Ethiopian nationalists don't consider themselves as sharing a community with the Rastafarians. On the contrary, Ethiopian nationalist narrative stresses Amharic culture, Orthodox Christianity and the uniqueness of Ethiopian statehood. All these three points stresses difference towards rest of sub-Saharan Africa. Notably, Haile Selassie I himself was not entirely comfortable with stressing the anti-Italian resistance as a pillar of nationalist discourse, as he was in power-struggle with many of the prominent resistance figures. --Soman (talk) 20:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

That is a reasonable critique. This was a very conventional encyclopedia that I used - it mentioned Ethiopianism and Rastafarianism - perhaps they should be mentioned briefly as having connection as a pro-Ethiopian cultural nationalism.--R-41 (talk) 02:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Amhara nationalism

Amhara nationalism redirects here, but the article does not explain the relationship between Amhara nationalism and Ethiopian nationalism, except to suggest that Amhara people played a part in promoting Ethiopian nationalism. This redirect is confusing in the context of 2019 Amhara Region coup d'état attempt, where "Amhara nationalist militias" are positioned against the government of Ethiopia. Duck type goose (talk) 13:38, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

I think Amhara nationalism is worthy of its own article. Charles Essie (talk) 05:06, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Vandalism and Deletion of the History Section

I've been editing lately without an account but I just recently created one because I have to call out some of the incorrect things I've seen here. Someone keeps deleting information about what other ethnic groups have done in building up the evolution of the Ethiopian state, all sources have been cited but someone is deleting them with no comment as to why. I feel like the person deleting the information is most likely biased against the topic of Ethiopian nationalism to the extent of derailing the topic and misconstruing its positions as seen by their selective deletion of the parts the Yejju and Wollo clans of the Oromo people, as well as the Tigrayans, and Agaw played in the course of Ethiopian history and Ethiopian nationalism painting Ethiopia as a solely Amhara state or at the very least making it out to look like that only Amharas were the ethnic group that played a role in the development of Ethiopia completely ignoring other ethnic group's input. See comparison: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethiopian_nationalism&type=revision&diff=990204589&oldid=990171499 . These issues are not only found in this Wikipedia article, but also seen throughout the internet with people with motives other than contributing the factual history, people have even started disinformation campaigns on Ethiopian history and politics, systematically trying to erase the role of other ethnic groups in Ethiopian history making it look like Ethiopia is an Amhara-only country with no historical leaders of other ethnicities, when in fact there were. This can be seen in the edits of other contributors and their deletion of large portions of the history section; compare the current iteration of this article with the previous one at the upcoming link: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethiopian_nationalism&oldid=990171499#cite_note-11 . JohnStewart256 (talk) 15:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I reverted because multiple users are trying to add (essentially) the same content: example. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

• Gyrofrog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) The user by the username of User:Gyrofrog has repeatedly been instigating an edit war by deleting information and sources from the history section of the Ethiopian nationalism Wikipedia article specifically on parts of the section that pertain to the role the Wello and Yejju clans of the Oromo people, as well as the role Tigrayans, Sidama, Agaw, and other ethnic groups of Ethiopia throughout history have played in the nation building and the building of civic nationalism in Ethiopia. This user has repeatedly reverted edits of those who have tried to add back the deleted text and sources. The wordings used and selective deletions that the user has done leads me to believe that User:Gyrofrog is trying to paint Ethiopian nationalism as only applying to one ethnic group, the Amhara people, and seems like they are insinuating that only Amharas have played a role in the nation building of Ethiopia completely ignoring the impact other ethnic groups have had. I would like to repeat what I have already said before in Talk:Ethiopian nationalism in the "Vandalism and Deletion of the History Section", that the user is pushing a viewpoint that can be seen as systematically trying to erase the role of other ethnic groups in Ethiopian history making it look like Ethiopia is a country only lead by ethnic Amharas with no historical leaders from other ethnicities, when in fact there were several others from different that were in high places of authority. Selectively deleting several key points of Ethiopian history and the development of Ethiopian Civic Nationalisms making it seem like it only applies to ethnic Amharas. This is a key tell-tale sign that this user may not be here to put forth constructive contributions but may be pushing an agenda that is keenly identical to that of the positions held by the Tigray People's Liberation Front that opposes Ethiopian nationalism and Civic nationalism and promotes ethnic federalism and ethnic nationalism in its place. The user maybe trying to derail and sabotage the topic by deleting several key elements and history from the article. I can explain more if you need more information. This is my second timer reporting this user to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism and my requests are being ignored with no explanation. JohnStewart256 (talk) 22:20, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Amhara nationalism and Ethiopian nationalism are different.

Stop mixing up Ethiopia with Amhara ethnicity. Ethiopian nationalism is the national (multi-ethnic) identity of the Ethiopian people. Amharas are only 1 ethnic group, Amhara nationalism redirects here for some twisted reason, and someone is replacing Ethiopia with Amhara on this article. Someone keeps calling the pre-EPRDF Ethiopian flag without State Symbol the Amhara flag when it is the traditional Ethiopian Flag used by all ethnic groups, and the Amhara flag looks nothing like the the Ethiopian flag. The Traditional Ethiopian Flag is Green, Yellow, and Red while the Amhara flag is Yellow, Red Yellow. 2601:14D:8581:2C70:7D2D:AE3E:71A:6224 (talk) 21:33, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much, that all needed. There is much disruption even libelous tactics against Amhara people. But the subject doesn't talk about merely the people. It advocates civil equality and equality in all ethnic groups in Ethiopia, thus now defined as Ethiopianism. Can you fight libelous editing against Amharas in the article? We need patrolling admin to see this. The Supermind (talk) 21:18, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Amhara Political-Predominance Era vs. Shewan (Shewan Neftenya) Political-Predominance Era

• Undid revision 1014626175 by Boud (talk) Dear User:Boud, thank you for combatting the use of ethnic slurs, which many participants on Horn African Wikipedia don't do. But I would kindly disagree; in this specific context it is not being used as an ethnic slur but as specific class of aristocrats. Article makes the ruling class out to be only and all Amharas when in actuality it was multi-ethnic; Neftenya is more accurate because it differentiates between a select ruling class vs. whole ethnicities.
  • Also, the aristocrats that consolidated the Ethiopian state were not all Amhara. It was consolidated by the Kingdom of Shewa which had a multi-ethnic leadership of mostly Amharas, Oromos, and Gurages; and not all Amharas or Amhara populations played a role in the consolidation because there were Amhara populations outside the Kingdom of Shewa, that opposed Shewan expansion into their lands in a similar fashion to that of non-Shewan Oromos that opposed Shewan expansion into other Oromo lands.
• The term Amhara in the phrase "Amhara Political-Predominance Era" was replaced with either "Shewan Political-Predominance Era" or "Shewan Neftenya Political-Predominance Era" because of the earlier aforementioned reasons.
• A neftenya (Amharic: ነፍጠኛ, "rifle-bearer") was a feudal lord and settler who operated in the framework of the process of territorial expansion and creation of modern Ethiopia by the late 19th century. Neftenya is in modern times frequently used as an ethnic slur against the Amhara, the second most populous ethnic group in Ethiopia. Historically not only the Amharas were part of the Neftenya ruling class, when in actuality it also consisted of Tigrayans, Oromos, and Gurages, a majority of which came from the Kingdom of Shewa.
  • In other words the Neftenya elite were not all Amhara and not all Amharas were included in the Neftenya elite even though Amhara culture was more visible within Ethiopian Royal Court Culture which heavily influenced each other. This is something that many people including parts of this article don't make a distinction between; when this distinction is needed to accurately relay information.

HOA101 (talk) 23:40, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@HOA101: Thanks for the clarification! And my apologies for misunderstanding. There's still some work needed to improve the phrasing, however. Generally it's better to put the more detailed information in the body, and then a brief summary in the WP:LEAD. Right now, we have an extremely long sentence in the lead - the one which you modified - which many readers will have difficulty following. It should at least be split into two, and I'm not sure if it's really summarising the content. However, that's a longer term issue requiring adding content. More specifically about your edit:

• given that the two usages are (at least for the moment) in a single article, and to use proper English, I would recommend something like: ... in the aftermath of the era dominated by the [[Shewa]] [[Neftenya#Establishment of administration|Neftenya]] that occurred ...; this would make it clearer to someone who clicks on the link that the relevant meaning is the historical epoch, not the modern ethnic slur;
• the advox.globalvoices.org link (currently [9]) fails and should be fixed or removed.

Boud (talk) 01:38, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

References

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Ethiopian nationalism have been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again. For help, take a look at the introduction. The following is the log entry regarding this message: Ethiopian nationalism was changed by BalchaSafo (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.897787 on 2021-04-13T22:58:48+00:00 Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 22:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC) Above message was have been warning Sock puppet account user like BalchaSafo and HOA101. the two account probably same, doing same thing. MfactDr (talk) 00:39, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

One editor complained this issue in my talk page that suggested the article to be written in neutral form and is biased to the point of against Amhara people. The editor also proposed rewriting the article to better tune. I've noticed the current revision is racially motivated bias, especially in the lead section, such as the use of "ideology" limited to Amhara and several slurs that do not fit with encyclopedia. I thinking this editor rewriting is valid in accordance with WP:NPOV, which state that Ethiopian nationalism represents pan-Ethiopian citizen and ethnic groups rather than the current version. Though I've less experienced at Ethiopian history, I'm stongly suggest that the article should be written in neutral form or it is better to replace by SelamJinfessa edit proposition. The Supermind (talk) 09:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2021: Biases in this Article and Remediation Attempts

At the moment right now this article only expresses the views held by opponents of pan-Ethiopian nationalism and it ignores the views held by many modern supporters of pan-Ethiopian nationalism that come from many different ethnic groups which are not and never have been synonymous with the Amhara people. Here are a few things and sources one may use to give a balanced view of what pan-Ethiopian nationalism is perceived as from different perspectives. I have collected these from different iterations of this article which when put together explain the nuances and differences of opinion on this subject, which is something not properly mentioned in this article.

Further reading section dispute

Hello a 3rd opinion about the further reading section would be most welcome, to determine whether it's appropriate or not. 14:13, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria, I have declined your Third opinion request and removed it from the active discussions portion of that page. Our guidelines for when a third opinion should be requested say: "Before making a request here, be sure that the issue has been thoroughly discussed on the article talk page." I encourage you to discuss the Further reading section with other editors and try and build consensus here. If you end up at a standstill, then a 3o might be appropriate. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 15:11, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Firefangledfeathers okay. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 16:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Rastakwere I express concern about the neutrality(NPOV) of this section, whether there's conflict of interest. If you read the article, and you arrive at this section, it reads like an advertisment to me. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 16:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2021 - Inquiry about the anti-Amharra rhetoric in the article called "Ethiopian Nationalism"

The article portrays false narratives of the Amhara ethnic group. These narratives have been unproven can be challenged, thus I request that this page be open to the public so that others may be able to have input and add information with sources since this article is completely one-sided and biased. Narratives like these are the exact same ones that are used in Ethiopia by many different groups of Ethiopians to justify the current ethnic cleansing and genocide of innocent ethnic Amharas across Ethiopia. Whoever wrote this article is probably sitting in the comfort of hi/her/their home in North America not having to worry about being killed for their ethnicity, meanwhile innocent Amhara mothers and children in Ethiopia are getting slaughtered on a daily basis as a result of false information spread under articles such as this one. Tewahedo Ethiopia (talk) 23:10, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:15, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: You're right but I think the whole paragraphs must be inspected through their reliable sources. Some strictly use pejorative terms like "against Neftegna" in the first paragraph — a name used by Oromo people to describe Amhara as authoritarian — is written in unencyclopedic sense and some statements seem biased. For example, "Both the Haile Selassie and Derg governments relocated numerous Amharas into southern Ethiopia including the present-day Oromia Region, where they served in government administration, courts, church and even in schools, where Oromo texts were eliminated and replaced by Amharic." For this statement, these three sources ([3], [4] and [5]) must be inspected because they resemble like original source authored by Oromo ethnicity with exaggerated words that seems to demean Amhara ethnic. It is difficult as fish expedition of which source is original source and how to detect them. However it is important to detect every texts and sources rather than leaving it for readers. The Supermind (talk) 20:48, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

The Supermind, that's well and good, but not what an edit request is for. It's to request a specific edit, not to complain in general terms. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:56, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2021

Under the "Era of Ethnic Federalism" header, change:

"In 1991, the TPLF has had almost complete control of the national government..." to "In 1991, the TPLF had almost complete control of the national government...,"

"In the early 1990s, the TPLF believed that through an ethnic federalist state system, one in which regions were assigned and divided by the ethnic population. They regulated [...]" to something like

"In the early 1990s, the TPLF believed that through an ethnic federalist state system, one in which regions were assigned and divided by the ethnic population, they could [...]"

"In 2015 after a master plan was unveiled to expand the boundaries of the capital Addis Ababa into Oromia in 2014, thousands of Oromo Youth Liberation Movement members took up to the streets demanding increased political representation, an end to the TPLF sponsored Master Plan and avenues of dissent.[19]" to "In 2015, after a master plan was unveiled to expand the boundaries of the capital Addis Ababa into Oromia in 2014, thousands of Oromo Youth Liberation Movement members took to the streets to demand increased political representation, an end to the TPLF sponsored Master Plan, and avenues of dissent.[19]"

I believe that these edits would fix various grammar issues without altering the meaning of the statements above, let me know if anyone can clarify their intended meanings.

 Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 16:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Spiderduckpig (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Spiderduckpig Spiderduckpig (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2021 (UTC)