Talk:Enrique Caballero Peraza

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Deletion

As there is no sign of the AfD page yet I thought I would put some ideas here. My view is that we should allow time for the article to be cleaned up after its mangling by the babelfish. The subject is a politician of some sort (it is hard to understand the details) and sounds like me may be notable enough for inclusion. What we need is references for verifiability. He already has an article in the Spanish Wikipedia (from which this was copied) but this is very poorly referenced and does not help. Googling does not look very promising but I don't speak Spanish so that might be the problem. If the AfD shows up I will either vote "neutral" or "weak keep subject to referencing". --DanielRigal (talk) 22:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a better translation, it was a bad copy of its original in spanish. Needs the help of some bilingual users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.160.56.241 (talk) 23:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added some references

I found some newspaper articles which seem to be about him and added them both to this article and to the one in the Spanish Wikipedia. As a member of a national legislature (the Chamber of Deputies of Mexico), he is automatically notable. --Eastmain (talk) 00:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re Enrique Caballero and hoaxes

Hullo: Please note that what follows isn't an "official" notification. I am just an user that happens to have read the relevant discussion in es wiki and thinks it might be relevant here.

The article Enrique Caballero Peraza has been deleted permanently in Spanish wiki. The account mostly used to create that and related articles has been blocked permanently and the user expelled. See here

The main reasons are: the account in question (Henry Knight - lit translation of Enrique Caballero) abused wikipedia in order to create and manipulate articles (principally the one regarding himself) to promote his own ambitions (including tentatives to promote the sale of a book he has written), in addition he modified and or hid relevant and sourced material in articles of interest to him, including that of the President of Mexico (trying to give the impression it had been done at that gentlemen's request) or the one relating to his expulsion of his former political party due to "missing monies". Mr Caballero also directly "created" information and sources in order to claim descent from some noble house or another (so as to promote his claim as hereditary "princeps" of a supposed micro nation which only requires 50 millions dollars to implement). All the former become evident as consecuence of a debate following a tentative of the account Henry Knight to create a new category of "highly intelligent people" in which, together with people like Newton, Einstein, etc, appeared Mr Enrique Caballero.

Let me be clear: Henry Knight recognized publicly that he is Enrique Caballero P (see link above). Of the the three external links at present in this article, Henry Knight repeatedly eliminated (in the spanish wiki) the two regarding the expulsion of Mr Caballero from his party (and motives for such expulsion) and rewrote the article to give the impression he is still influential and active not only on it but in politics at high level in his country (to the extent that he acts to "safeguard" the interests of the president of that nation in wikipedia, including e-mails to that personage boasting of having done so) and the third one is, according to people who understand genealogy ) not just a hoax , but a hoax that Mr Caballero created and publicises in his own web page.

However, Mr Caballero appears to have been a member of such party and to have had some position of trust on it.

I believe the matter deserves consideration, however I wont modify at all the article at the moment, as I haven't been active in this wiki. Cheers... Lnegro (talk) 12:55, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The trouble is that if he was actually a member of the national legislature then he remains notable. The article needs to be corrected but can not be deleted. In the meantime, I will put some tags on it. --DanielRigal (talk) 16:52, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, The French article is at AfD and currently has 2 keeps to 0 deletes. --DanielRigal (talk) 21:02, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

re "that if he was actually a member of the national legislature then he remains notable." I fully understand (and agree) with that. The problem (IMO) is that all the info seems to come from his own web page. And that is written in such a way as to be rather confussing. As an instance: in his web page it says: Realizó estudios universitarios de Psicología en la Facultad de Psicología de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México y obtuvo el Diploma de Psicólogo Consejero y Psicoterapeuta de la Asociación Mexicana de Psicoterapia Dinámica. A.C." (He studied psychology in the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México and gained a Diploma as psicological councellor and psicotherapist from the Asociación Mexicana de Psicoterapia Dinámica. A.C) If we search for such Asociación we find that is an organization apparently founded by a Dr. Raúl Jimenez Bonnet, but all the info in the page is re (and provided by) Mr Caballero.

Personally I do believe he was a deputy for the PAN because to make that one up seems too much. But as to the rest.. Personally I would erase everything else, specially all that about "Current Activities": I have no real way to check his supposed teaching activities, etc. The same in relation to his supposed academic degrees: he claims to have studied surgery in the Universidad La Salle (during five years.. a "tad in the short side", but there.. he does not claim directly to have finished those studies and does not appear to work as a surgeon). Neither does he claim directly to have obtained a degree or post degree in psychology from the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México but from the "Asociación Mexicana de Psicoterapia Dinámica. A.C", which, as far as I can make out, is some sort of a business org, via which Mr Caballero offers his (competent, no doubt) services. IMO all this requires further independent sources. Cheers... Lnegro (talk) 00:05, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Further: the only info I can fin re Dr Jimenez Bonnet (founder of the Asociación Mexicana de Psicoterapia Dinámica. A.C) is in here. It would appear the good Dr was the third husband of Ms Yolanda Peraza Guzmán, mother of Mr Enrique Caballero Peraza. Checking the sources, the editor of the article is a contributor going by the nick of Knight Henry. (see here). Now, I have nothing against people who are trying to study and divulge their family's histories (as well as their economic interests). But wikipedia isn't the place for it. Mr Caballero was, once, a deputy in his country's Congress, and had some political relevance until his expulsion from his party (sadly, in Mexico, the number of corrupt politicians is such that one more is no great news). That, and no more, is what is relevant in wikipedia. Lnegro (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re the debate in fr wiki. I'm afraid my French is appalling. I will try to inform them of the situation in the Spanish wiki, but it might be convenient if someone actually could. Lnegro (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:48, 2 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Out of the four sources provided, the first two return "Sorry, no results were found". The fourth, es.rodovid.org, is a wiki that is completely edited by one person, Henry Knight himself, so it is completely unreliable. That leaves us with the third, which appears to be some sort of chronicle of reforms to the Mexican Constitution. The name "Peraza" is mentioned twice – at the top and bottom, crediting him as a representative of the PAN parliamentary group. However, I'm not sure what "Representative" means in the Mexican political context. Google news turns up only two news items, none of which are related to him. How can we verify that he is deputy of the Mexican Congress as claimed in the article? The article on Congress of Mexico appears to show two types of leaders; President of the Senate and President of the Chamber of Deputies. There is no such thing as "Deputy of the Mexican Congress", as portrayed in the article. Seeing that almost every other Wikipedia has deleted this, including the Spanish Wikipedia (if anyone can verify any sources, it would be them), unless someone can come up with proper WP:RS, I can't see why we should keep this article at all. --SMasters (talk) 01:26, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've put a note at WikiProject Mexico. Hopefully, someone there can help shed some light on this. --SMasters (talk) 01:36, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is one official and bona fide source (here, p 9) which shows Mr Caballero to have been a "diputado" in the Mexican Congress. It is some record (from 1992) that shows Mr Caballero was one among all the "diputados" of Guerrero State who supported a motion to honour someone. (the document was found by someone in the french wiki. There are others there, but they come courtesy of the user Henry Knight and are translations of motions apparently proposed by Mr Caballero). Lnegro (talk) 02:21, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]