Talk:Killing of Jordan Neely

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On 4 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Death of Jordan Neely to Killing of Jordan Neely. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2023

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Change: "Penny should have known when Neely became unconscious and released him"

to: "some believe the hold was justified while others do not" 50.206.31.50 (talk) 16:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Shadow311 (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please describe how we can provide a "consensus". Several news stations interviewees new yorkers with a mix of responses showing that some people believed Penny's actions justified some did not, shall we provide links to dozens of videos with these interviews? 2601:646:4201:6370:C4A1:5BF:32B:5369 (talk) 02:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Penny should have known..." is a declarative statement of a personal opinion. Random NYers have no idea what Penny did or didn't know and inclusion of this sentence screams of bias, as does your excuse for not revising it.

Not that Wiki cares anymore. Your political bias is getting more and more pronounced, which degrades your integrity and value as a source for information. 76.73.182.106 (talk) 15:15, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly believe much of this article should be rewritten. It seems quite biased, heavily insinuating the idea that what Daniel Penny was unjust. 98.115.49.65 (talk) 02:39, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very much agree. The tone and even the writing style are biased. Please change/edit to be more neutral - especially "should have known." Thanks! 2603:6011:C003:1256:D188:F3CC:F6AC:C762 (talk) 01:57, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As stated by other posters the language in this article seems very biased. It is important to understand that there are varying opinions of this incident. The langue and content of this article seems to only represent one viewpoint. 71.71.148.123 (talk) 17:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only one viewpoint is supposed to be represented--that of the reliable sources. If you'd like to present some to back up changes you'd like to see, you are welcome to do so! Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 19:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The source is Alex Hollings, a "Former marine blackbelt", not law enforcement or legal expert, and Business Insider has 'no consensus' as a RS. Giving him 2 whole paragraphs is excessive at least. Hi! (talk) 02:59, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death, not killing ...

Killing of Jordan Neely? Really? Bias and an unreasonable prejudice. Death of Jordan Neely. 2003:DC:8F02:3750:58A6:4609:8EE6:5432 (talk) 13:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Penny has admitted to killing Neely, but he claims it was homicide and not murder. WWGB (talk) 13:27, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Penny is qualified to make that determination. We need to wait until the trial ends. "Death" is more appropriate at this time. 66.31.232.83 (talk) 17:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. We should be able to up- and downvote these things because Wiki has gotten extremely Left biased in the last few years, which makes the information in these entries suspect and largely unusable as a source. 76.73.182.106 (talk) 15:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a democracy where business is conducted by voting(which is easily gamed in this format). Wikipedia should not be trusted blindly, readers should examine the sources provided. Wikipedia does not claim to be the truth. If you see errors in how the sources in this article are summarized, please tell how. If you have additional sources, please offer them.

A source being biased does not preclude its use on Wikipedia, unless it is alleged that the source is so biased it lacks basic journalistic standards or makes things up out of whole cloth. You are free to read an article and disagree with all of it. 331dot (talk) 15:21, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you read the top of the talk page, this topic was discussed and resolved in an open forum; see here. Basically the coroner ruled that this was a homicide and so the name of the page reflects this fact. Anyone charged is innocent until proven guilty. Qflib (talk) 18:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

why not use the same expression for both, either use the word - man - on both or just the description black or white.

please look into this:

'Jordan Maurice' Caine Neely was a 30-year-old black man who grew up in Bayonne, New Jersey.

Daniel Penny is a white (where is the man part here?) former Marine sergeant from West Islip, New York. 2800:B20:111A:3DFF:E1B7:8F6D:3EFB:C6C5 (talk) 17:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please, let's try to answer with more detail and common sense, being "Marine" is not the subject we are addressing in the way this wiki is being presented. Both are - Men - and not Marine or Dancer respectively. The information should correspond with the fact that both are Men in the eyes of the law and public. It is a single word that can be biased information, what would the impact on the wiki, will be to add to Daniel Penny the attribute of Man+White+Marine? Would this harm the wiki?? Of course not, but it is clear from the intention on the data in this wiki, that Daniel Penny is being presented as a White+Marine ONLY, and NOT as a Man, that can be scared like any other, Man or Woman on that train. One single word makes a difference in this article. Thanks for considering my observation. If not, then it is stated here in this topic. 2800:B20:111A:3DFF:E1B7:8F6D:3EFB:C6C5 (talk) 18:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why use the terms “white” and “black” at all? The terms are not only inaccurate and divisive, but there is no indication that skin color has any relevance to these events. I vote we remove these terms entirely, with the possible exception of statements alleging racial bias (e.g. Sharpton’s). TheOtter (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "Killing of Jordan Neely" in title to "Death of Jordan Neely" as existing title implies guilt since a party is currently standing trial for murder charges. Proposed title conveys equal information without any potential bias. 98.20.76.127 (talk) 01:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1153263936#Requested_move_4_May_2023 Cannolis (talk) 05:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2024 (2)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Penny is not a former Marine, no one is a former Marine, he is a retired Marine 50.145.136.178 (talk) 18:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point. All of the news article refer to Penny as a "Marine vet" or a "Marine veteran," not as a "former Marine." I could certainly use that language throughout the article instead. However, "retired Marine" is someone who has left active service after a specific number of years, and that is not the case here. But I can adjust the language to "Marine veteran." Qflib (talk) 20:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Latest autopsy

Showed no bruises at neck. Toxicology report indicated other reasons for death. Judge on Fox news. 72.175.149.6 (talk) 20:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Killing?

In most legal jurisdictions, New York is one, intent is required to be considered a killing as murder; meaning that to be convicted of murder, the prosecution must prove that the accused person intended to cause the death of the victim, not just that they caused the death unintentionally or through negligence.

Key points about intent in killing:

Different levels of intent: Depending on the circumstances, a killing can be considered first-degree murder (requiring premeditation and specific intent to kill), second-degree murder (malicious intent without premeditation), or manslaughter (killing without the intent to kill but with reckless behavior).
Proving intent: Prosecutors must present evidence to demonstrate the accused person's mental state at the time of the killing, including their actions, words, and surrounding circumstances.
Exceptions: Some situations, like felony murder, may not require proving specific intent to kill if the death occurs during the commission of a serious crime.

2601:402:501:46B0:2D49:2C26:1634:867F (talk) 00:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]