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Proposed changes: Opening paragraphs

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Changes to introductory paragraphs:

Current language: The Committee for Economic Development of The Conference Board (CED) is an American nonprofit and nonpartisan public policy think tank. The board of trustees consist primarily of senior corporate executives from a range of U.S. industries and sectors. The organization has been credited with helping to create the Marshall Plan.

Proposed new language:

The Committee for Economic Development of The Conference Board (CED) is an American nonprofit and nonpartisan public policy think tank. It is supported by Trustees, who are chief executive officers and key executives of leading US companies.

CED’s work is based on the core principle of sustaining capitalism and ensuring that it provides freedom of opportunity for Americans.[1] CED lends its voice and expertise to help shape economic policies and initiatives that include efficient fiscal and regulatory policy, competitive and open markets, leading technology & innovation, modernized infrastructure, an upskilled workforce, accessible healthcare, education reform; sustaining democratic institutions and supporting women in corporate leadership.[2]

Since its inception in 1942, CED has addressed national priorities to promote economic growth.[3] CED’s work in those first few years led to policy accomplishments including the Marshall Plan, the economic development program that helped rebuild Europe and maintain the peace;[4] the Bretton Woods Agreement that established the new global financial system,[5] and both the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.[6]

Reason for change: This language provides additional context to what the organization is, how it was founded, and who is involved.

Sources supporting the change: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_End_of_Loyalty/N0q1DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 https://www.ced.org/policyissues https://www.nytimes.com/1945/03/25/archives/the-ced-on-bretton-woods.html https://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/559171602747119114/World-Bank-Group-Archives-Folder-1849647.pdf?redirect=no

Mch115 (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mch115, I'm sorry if this seems to move the goalposts. What this edit request asks me to do is read two books, a couple of articles, and a report, and to search within them to find the supporting content. Make it easy on me. Tell me 1. what the source actually says that supports these changes and 2. what page I can find it on in that source.
And honestly just on a read of the content, without having read the sources, that's way too much fluff. It sounds like what should be on the organization's website or LinkedIn. Language like "lends its voice and expertise" and "to benefit all Americans" are considered peacockery.
I know this is difficult for paid editors who are just trying to do their jobs. It's not easy for those whose job it is to promote the organization and its reputation. valereee (talk) 12:07, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


@valereee, I have taken another pass through at the above text, with language that removes any peacockery and quotes to back up points. See what you think. Mch115 (talk) 21:38, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]


References

  1. ^ https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_End_of_Loyalty/N0q1DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0, (page 7 in chapter 1 of the book preview, it says "..By free enterprise, it continued, we mean freedom of opportunity, opportunity to work, to live decently, to educate children in the arts of citizenship and human happiness and in the skills of a trade or profession to provide against sickness or old age. We stress opportunity, not contrasted with security, but identified with security.")
  2. ^ https://www.ced.org/policyissues (Instead of linking to an article, can this link to the organization website page that lists the research areas? Although it is the organization's page, it outlines areas of research--as it is a fact that CED does research in these core areas.)
  3. ^ https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_End_of_Loyalty/N0q1DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 (page 8 in chapter 1 of the book preview says "...members of the CED would work earnestly toward achieving these principles. They pursued them, in large measure, by analyzing and opining upon the proper federal role in shaping and steering the nation's economy. Specifically, they encouraged the government to manipulate the levers of fiscal and monetary policy so as to put an end to the boom-bust cycles that had long roiled American businesses and their workers.")
  4. ^ https://fortune.com/2019/05/30/capitalism-democratic-socialists/ (paragraph 8, "The CED helped to create today’s Council of Economic Advisers (CEA), the Marshall Plan, and an Eisenhower-era tax on excess profits to support wartime expenditures.)
  5. ^ https://www.nytimes.com/1945/03/25/archives/the-ced-on-bretton-woods.html
  6. ^ https://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/559171602747119114/World-Bank-Group-Archives-Folder-1849647.pdf?redirect=no

Proposed Changes: History Section

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Changes to History section:

Current language: According to Fortune the organization "originated in the Commerce Department" in 1942 and was created to encourage collaborative research among business leaders, economists, and New Deal politicians "to promote free enterprise and full employment, paying particular attention to the needs of small business".[1]

The first business leaders on board were Paul G. Hoffman, president of Studebaker Corporation; William Benton, co-founder of Benton & Bowles advertising firm; and Marion B. Folsom, treasurer of Eastman Kodak Company.[citation needed] CED was first formed to help the U.S. economy transition from a wartime to peacetime economy.[2] At the end of World War II, CED worked to garner support among the American business community for the Marshall Plan.[2][3]

In January 2015, the Committee for Economic Development merged with The Conference Board.[4][better source needed] Both are non-partisan, non-lobbying, and have trustees drawn mainly from the business community.[citation needed]

Proposed new language:

According to Fortune the organization "originated in the Commerce Department" in 1942 and was created to encourage collaborative research among business leaders, economists, and New Deal politicians "to promote free enterprise and full employment, paying particular attention to the needs of small business"[1]

CED was founded in 1942 by a group of business leaders led by Paul G. Hoffman, president of Studebaker Corporation; William Benton, co-founder of Benton & Bowles advertising firm; and Marion B. Folsom, treasurer of Eastman Kodak Company.[2] CED was first formed to help the U.S. economy transition from a wartime to peacetime economy. At the end of World War II, CED successfully worked to garner support among the American business community for the Marshall Plan.[3]

In January 2015, the Committee for Economic Development merged with The Conference Board as its public policy center.[4]

Reason for change: The above changes add citations and more detailed context to CED's history and contributions to the global economy.

Sources supporting change: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_End_of_Loyalty/N0q1DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1 https://afsa.org/helping-europe-help-itself-marshall-plan https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/479179-capitalism-must-meet-the-challenge-prosperity-for-all-americans https://businessfacilities.com/2015/01/the-conference-board-and-committee-for-economic-development-to-merge/ https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-conference-board-to-merge-with-the-committee-for-economic-development-300020593.html

Mch115 (talk) 22:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, for this one:
  1. Again you're pointing me at multiple sources, some quite lengthy. Make it easy for me: page numbers and exact quotes of what the source says.
  2. Why are we deleting the first para? That appears to be well-sourced.
  3. No objection to most of the changes in wording for the (originally second) para, except for the "successfully" as that seems like puffery. I'd rather insert language that they 'were credited for helping create' with source. Ditto language like "ensure that capitalism provides equal opportunity for all Americans to share in its benefit now and for generations to come". That can only be used with attribution, it's puffery, and if the only people who are saying it are the org itself (or sources quoting the org), then it doesn't belong in this section but in Stated aims. And I think that's already in Stated aims, so probably doesn't need to be here too? valereee (talk) 17:49, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


@valereee In this section, I added back in the existing first paragraph that's well-sourced, and added in the reference to the Fortune article. I also removed the paragraph with some of the questionable language. What's left is just some additional historical context, and it is linked to appropriate sources. In the book "The End of Loyalty," only the first chapter is directly about CED -- In the first chapter, (pages 1-15 or so of the preview text), it discusses the founders. Let me know if these edits work.

Mch115 (talk) 21:51, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://fortune.com/2019/05/30/capitalism-democratic-socialists/ (added this first paragraph back in)
  2. ^ https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_End_of_Loyalty/N0q1DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1 (the founding members are listed in chapter 1, pages 1-8)
  3. ^ https://afsa.org/helping-europe-help-itself-marshall-plan
  4. ^ https://businessfacilities.com/2015/01/the-conference-board-and-committee-for-economic-development-to-merge/; https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-conference-board-to-merge-with-the-committee-for-economic-development-300020593.html (Press release is not from CED, but from The Conference Board -- helps prove the merger did occur, and dates it)

Proposed Changes: "Work" section

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: Changes to "Work" section:

Current language:

The CED has been credited with helping to create the Bretton Woods Agreement, the Employment Act of 1946 (and therefore the Council of Economic Advisers and the Joint Economic Committee) and the Marshall Plan.[1][2]

Since its inception, CED has promoted policies that its trustees believe will foster American economic growth and development and indirectly benefit the country and people. The organization conducts research and outreach efforts in the U.S. and abroad to change policy at all levels of government. More recently CED has also advocated to increase access to pre-kindergarten and college, for campaign finance reform nationally, for more women in corporate leadership, and for reduced government spending.[3][better source needed]

Proposed language: (Keep first two paragraphs, but add a third) CED has been credited with helping to create the Bretton Woods Agreement, the Employment Act of 1946 (and therefore the Council of Economic Advisers and the Joint Economic Committee) and the Marshall Plan.[1][2]

Since its inception, CED has promoted policies that its trustees believe will foster American economic growth and development and indirectly benefit the country and people. The organization conducts research and outreach efforts in the U.S. and abroad to change policy at all levels of government. More recently, CED has also advocated to increase access to pre-kindergarten and college, for campaign finance reform nationally, for more women in corporate leadership, and for reduced government spending.[3]

CED conducts policy research and provides insights and solutions in the following issue areas: fiscal health, education (including early childhood, K-12, and postsecondary),[4] health care,[5] trade/economic globalization, smart regulation, women in corporate leadership, infrastructure, technology & innovation, workforce, climate, energy and the environment, and sustaining democratic institutions, among other business and economic issues.

Reason for change: The text currently in the "Work" section does a great job at outlining past work and current research areas and opportunities. By adding this paragraph (and links to research done in many of these areas) it gives a better picture of the many different topics and themes that CED is working at any time.

Sources supporting the change: https://fortune.com/2019/05/30/capitalism-democratic-socialists/ https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/479179-capitalism-must-meet-the-challenge-prosperity-for-all-americans https://www.marketplace.org/2021/04/26/bidens-new-plan-would-invest-heavily-children-families/


Mch115 (talk) 22:08, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto on the sources, if they're lengthy provide page numbers, and give me the exact quotes that support the changes so I can easily find them. No objection in general assuming the sources are adequate, but query certain puffery language such as "provides insights and solutions" and "CED aims to encourage American business leaders to take a more expansive view of their responsibilities by practicing corporate citizenship and business stewardship — recognizing that business leaders can promote societal health by developing insights and solutions for the common good on timely public policy issues" which would have to be attributed. And again not sure 'CED aims to' belongs anywhere except in stated aims. We don't need their aims stated in every section. valereee (talk) 17:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Started through the sources from the bottom up...we cannot use press releases. Anything sourced to a press release (or created from a press release by a site that accept press releases) is a no-go from the start. We consider that the same as sourcing to the company's website.
InsideSources appears to be some sort of blog? Also not usable. All sources need, pretty much at minimum, evidence of editorial oversight. valereee (talk) 18:08, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Ipsos report seems to be self-sourced -- that is, a member of the organization talking about the organization. Nothing she herself says is usable. valereee (talk) 18:17, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Fortune piece is written by members of CED. Not usable. valereee (talk) 18:19, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to stop there for now. Please read WP:Reliable sources to see what it is Wikipedia needs and what doesn't work. valereee (talk) 18:20, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi :@valereee, a few notes here:

I didn't change anything in the first two paragraphs, and they remain identical to what was on the original page (with the exception of a comma that I added to make a sentence grammatically correct). If you are still okay with the text that you wrote, these can stay as is.
I deleted the last sentence of the third paragraph, that included "puffery" language. It now just includes the areas of research and work that CED is doing.
The links (many of which I realize were op-eds) were intended to prove that research is indeed being done in these areas. However, if press releases, op-eds, or any original research posted to the organization's website are not allowed as a source, there is not much that can be referenced to prove that this research is occurring. How do other smaller nonprofit orgs prove this, without major news stories written on all content?

Mch115 (talk) 22:13, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, @Mch115, WP does not try to include everything the organization does/is/wants to be/etc. It includes the things that others discuss. If others don't discuss something, we don't include it. We do provide a link to the org's website, where people can learn more. valereee (talk) 18:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://fortune.com/2019/05/30/capitalism-democratic-socialists/
  2. ^ https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/479179-capitalism-must-meet-the-challenge-prosperity-for-all-americans
  3. ^ https://www.ced.org/about
  4. ^ https://www.marketplace.org/2021/04/26/bidens-new-plan-would-invest-heavily-children-families/ (this NPR Marketplace interview focuses on CED research in the education space)
  5. ^ https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ced-recognized-prestigious-think-tank-163900935.html

Proposed Change: Replace "Stated Aims" section with "Principles"

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Replace "Stated Aims" section with a section titled "Principles"

Current language: As of 2022 CED's stated aims are to sustain and promote free enterprise, improve education and healthcare, reform campaign finance, enhance corporate governance, and improve the fiscal health of the United States.[3][better source needed]

Proposed language: As of 2022 CED's stated aims are to sustain and promote free enterprise, improve education and healthcare, reform campaign finance, enhance corporate governance, and improve the fiscal health of the United States.[1]


Reason for change: After more consideration, reverting back to the copy initially proposed by Wikipedia editors.

Sources supporting the change: https://www.ced.org/policyissues https://www.ced.org/about https://www.ced.org/reports https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/02/15/the_2022_policy_agenda_restore_fiscal_and_public_health_816763.html

@Mch115, it's a no on Stated aims > Principles for me. That's again what belongs on their LinkedIn or website. And since that's a single short source I can easily access, I skimmed it and do not see where in that source there is language that supports "The organization's work is based on the core principles of: sustainable capitalism, promote sustained economic growth, and development to benefit all Americans". What are you seeing? valereee (talk) 12:14, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@valereee I am okay with leaving the stated aims section as you rewrote it, and not swapping for my suggested language. In that case, will these pages work as references? As this section is explaining what the organization is working on in 2022, links back to the about page, recent research, and policy focus areas seems like the best source...Mch115 (talk) 21:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Those sources aren't any better than what's currently there, but I could see removing the bsn, as this is what the org says about themselves, and it's not controversial. I'd still rather see a source where someone else is writing about their stated aims, but their own statement is noncontroversial. valereee (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.ced.org/policyissues; https://www.ced.org/about; https://www.ced.org/reports (As this section is "Stated Aims," these links all show that the aims stated here are the most recent items the organization has been working on. Does this help prove it? I don't know of an external source that explicitly explains the project areas for 2022, though this op-ed outlines key priorities for the year ahead: https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/02/15/the_2022_policy_agenda_restore_fiscal_and_public_health_816763.html)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2024

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Add David Young, President of the Committee for Economic Development to the box on the side. https://www.conference-board.org/us/committee-economic-development/about

Update website from www.ced.org to https://www.conference-board.org/us/committee-economic-development KPuello (talk) 18:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 18:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They want David K. Young added to the infobox as president of the org. It's something that needs updating regularly, and the person doesn't appear to be notable. @KPuello, why do you feel this is important? Valereee (talk) 12:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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