Talk:College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS/Archive 2010

This is an archive of past discussions about College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 2005

←

Archive 2008

→

CFBDW table

Following the completion of the 2009 bowl season, College Football Data Warehouse has revamped their "recognized championships" from their own CFBDW selections to recognized selections that also reflect, with some exceptions, the claims of each individual school. The effect has been that the CFBDW now seems to be rely less than on its own opinion for each year's championship selections, and that this section of this Wikipedia article has now become somewhat duplicative of the "National championship claims by schools" section of the article, even though their numbers still vary in some cases. Since the "Claims by school table" is sourced from primary sources, it may be somewhat redundant to also include the CFBDW section as well. I am seeking opinions for the possible removal of the CFBDW table, though I have no strong issue with retaining it, although CFBDW table will have to be updated to reflect their new numbers. Any comments regarding this possibility? In the meantime, I will update the table to reflect CFBDW's newly recognized numbers. CrazyPaco (talk) 19:18, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Semi-protect request

I have put in a request for temporary semi-protect for this article because of the large number of unsourced and vandalistic IP edits following the extensive media coverage of USC's NCAA penalties. Remember, national championships in DI FBS football or neither awarded or certified by the NCAA. Individual, independent selectors award national championships and none of these have determined, as of yet, whether to withdrawal or vacate their selection of USC as a national champion in 2004. Footnotes have been added indicating the change to USC record as mandated by the NCAA, as well as to the claimed national championship list, for which USC appears to be mandated to drop its own claim on 2004. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree, but if USC had to vacate the win in the national championship game, doesn't that mean that they lost the National Championship game and are thereby not national champions? It's just a question I've been wondering lately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.55.39.197 (talk) 15:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

No. Vacated does not equal forfeit. Please read the article and other comments to learn about how national championships are awarded. CrazyPaco (talk) 19:44, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Auburn91294, 10 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Okalahoma should not be listed as National Champions from 2004. Leave it as vacated until Auburn is named the National Champions. It should be Auburn or no one. Oklahoma lost that game 55-19, and Auburn finished 2nd in the polls behind USC. Whos National Championship just got vacated by the NCAA.

Auburn91294 (talk) 22:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.

Also please read the article to gain an understanding about national championships in Div I FBS football and their selectors, as well as the above comments. The NCAA does not award or certify championships in Division 1 FBS football. No national championships have been withdrawn or vacated, or other teams awarded a national championship, by the corresponding individual and independent organizations that select national championships. Therefore, nothing should be changed in the article or list of championships until such time as that happens, if it does at all. Also, vacated does not mean forfeited. CrazyPaco (talk) 23:04, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Please note: the BCS has not taken official action to vacate the BCS Championship title for USC, and official action will pend a likely appeal by USC. [see http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=5273835] CrazyPaco (talk) 01:56, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

USC penalty information

USC title information and updates posted here. Please note that the NCAA does not award or certify any National Championships in Division 1 FBS football. Only independent organizations, referred to as "selectors" (e.g. AP, National Football Foundation), select and award national championships in D1 FBS. Please read the article for further information.

The NCAA has only mandated that wins be vacated, which has been reflected in USC's 2004 season record in the article for the time being but could change based on the result of USC's appeals.
The BCS has not as yet taken official action to vacate the BCS Championship title for USC, and official action will pend an appeal by USC: see this BCS press release.
The Associated Press (AP) has stated that USC will retain the National Title awarded to them by the AP in 2004. Therefore, USC will remain listed as having won a national championship as determined by a "major" national selector and with unaltered totals in the article section "Total championship selections from major selectors by school".
USC's own claim to a 2004 national championship is presumably unchanged at this time, and such status should remain reflected as such in this article "National championship claims by school" section, pending exhaustion of USC's appeals of its penalties and release of sourced material showing definitive change to its claim on a title. The NCAA has mandated USC remove all references to "championships" during this time, but is unclear whether this refers to college football national championships over which it has no governing authority and will still be valid according to at least the AP, or simply to appearances in "NCAA Championship" events in basketball and tennis.
The Football Writers Association of America (FWAA), a "major" selector, is considering whether or not to vacate USC's 2004 national championship and its Grantland Rice Trophy, although no decision has yet been made.(http://www.sportswriters.net/fwaa/news/2010/rice100610.html)

CrazyPaco (talk) 07:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Article name change

I submit, due to the confusion about the NCAA controlling national championship selections (which it does not), that this article be moved to College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS. CrazyPaco (talk) 07:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Since no one opposed, I went ahead and moved the article. CrazyPaco (talk) 08:17, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Missing Carlisle?

Is there a reason Carlisle Indian School is not included in the 1911 national champion box? They beat many of the nation's leading football schools that year, including a 27-6 drubbing of Army, which was the number one team at the time. They finished the year undefeated and untied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.171.84 (talk) 04:27, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Carlise is not listed in the Official NCAA Records Book as ever having been selected as national champions by a "major selector". There is no known reliable source that Carlise ever claimed the 1911 national championship. Wikipedia articles consist only of reliable, sourced information, not original research. Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability. CrazyPaco (talk) 06:42, 29 July 2010 (UTC)