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DC-15S Dispute

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I don't appreciate people editing this article with factually incorrect information. Reverting. --Tokakeke 22:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm sorry that I changed so much of the page, but if you check the sources I put down, most of what I put is correct. Although I did speculate on how much tibanna gas a DC-15 carbine could hold. Sorry I ticked you off so much, I didn't mean to be a pain in the neck --CC-1138 17:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • The information presented makes no logical sense. Why would a carbine be derived from a pistol rather than from another carbine?
  • It says in Star Wars Insider #84, in the article Behind the Armor, that the carbine is in the DC-15 family. The Republic Commando website lists the pistol as the DC-15s and the Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary says the carbine is the DC-15S. Now I want to stop arguing, and I can see where the S would be confusing, so I guess I could change DC-15S to DC-15B --CC-1138 20:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • You people need to cite actual sources of where you are getting all these wild designations. Where do you get "-15B" from? Is that just made up? The DC-15 comes in two varieties: the -15A model is the "long rifle" commonly used in Episode II, but still seen in Episode III; the -15S model is the carbine that is the predecessor of the E-11 carbine. My source is the Star Wars: Episode III Visual Dictionary, pages 40 and 41, under the heading "Elite Clones". The centerfold pages clearly point at the long rifle as being the -15A and the -15S as the carbine. There is no DC-15 pistol. The only place that even lists that weapon is the manual for Republic Commando, which I personally think is a typo and should have been labeled as a "DC-17 pistol", which is referenced in Star Wars Insider #84, Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic, by authors Karen Traviss and Ryan Kaufman. On a sidebar on page 28 it reads: "DC-17 Hand Blaster- Many captains and commanders also carried the DC-17 hand blaster, based on the core components of the DC-17 commando rifle (identified elsewhere in other sources and accepted as the "DC-17m"). The grip, barrel, and shell are completely different: Clones know the difference, but outsiders often scratched their heads. Commander Bly was known for carrying two krayt pearl-handled DC-17 pistols." Outside of the erroneous Republic Commando manual, there is no other mention of a "DC-15 pistol" anywhere else. I am in contact with Karen Traviss, who is looking into her sources at LFL, who'll hopefully get all of this straightened out.

Tb1019 01:07, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • The DC-15s pistol is clearly not the same as the DC-17 one. The DC-15s pistol is a sidearm, not a primary weapon as used by ARC troopers. You say the Republic Commando manual's is a "typo", but how do you know it's a typo and not the other source? Even in-game is the pistol referred to as a DC-15s (between levels). The article should be kept as carbine DC-15B until further notice. Tokakeke 20:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • DC-17 is the rifle. the one with the scope that folds down into a handgrip. Its also the "regular" rifle used/seen in Episode II. look in the Visual Dictionaries. Most of the sources i have seen have said the DC-17 is the rifle, the DC-15 is the carbine, and the DC-15s is the pistol. stop arguing. thats what it is. But the Blasters are: DC-17 = rifle, DC-15 = carbine, and the DC-15s = pistol.
  • Please sign your comments and refrain from going offtopic. The DC-15 is the rifle - this has been accepted everywhere in canon from games to books. Also, I have noticed some vandalism, both people changing the -B suffix and people just vandalizing the page adding comments like "x was here". So I've put up a controversy topic about the carbine thing and I'm watching this topic for vandalism. If it persists, I'll call an admin. Tokakeke 00:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK OK OK HERE IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE EPISODE III VISUAL DICTIONARY.

DC-15/DC-17 aren't really classes of weapon (rifle, pistol, etc.), but more of a type. There is a "DC" class. The DC-15 is the standard name of the blasters (SO WE WERE ALL WRONG TO A POINT). There is the DC-15 Rifle Class, the DC-15 Blaster Class, and the DC-17 Hand Gun Class.

The DC-15 Rifle comes in the following: DC-15A Standard Rifle

The Blaster ("carbine") comes in the following: DC-15 Standard Blaster DC-15S Blaster

The Hand Gun comes in the following: DC-17 Repeater Hand Blaster

DEBATE = OFFICIALLY DONE AND OWNED BY SHLOPPYJOE!! SHLOPPYJOE91 - 1 OTHER GUYS - 0. I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE. Sorry for not signing before, Shloppyjoe91

  • hey dipshit, there is no DC-15s pistol. its the DC-15 (also called the DC-15A) (rifle), the DC-15 (blaster), and the DC-17 (pistol). YOU = OWNED DC-15s = blaster ***

-Shloppyjoe

  • Okay, I wrote to Karen Traviss about this very issue. Karen Traviss is the author of "Star Wars: Republic Commando- Hard Contact" and the upcoming "Triple Zero" books. She also co-authored the "Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic" in Star Wars Insider #84. Her work is approved by LFL and she has contacts she can clarify with. This is what she wrote to me, verbatim:

"Okay, I didn't need to wait for an answer from LFL because this is from the 'Cron and my notes. This is the point where I pray I haven't made any typos... ;-)


The DC-15s is correct as the RC self-recharging sidearm.

The DC-15 is the standard clone trooper rifle - the one I think of as the elephant rifle. Strictly speaking, it's a DC-15a - that's in the RotS visual dictionary.

There's a DC-15x which is a special trooper sniper rifle - that's from Battlefront.

The DC-17 is the Commanders' and ARCs' twin pistol, because it shares core components with the RCs' Deece, the DC-17m. That's in the GAR article too.

The DC-17m is a rifle exclusive to RCs.

There is a DC-17 used by jet troopers in Battlefront. No other desig that I can see, just DC-17.

There is a DC-60 carbine in Galaxies:Trials of Obi Wan; I have no idea what it looks like and I've never heard of troopers using it in the EU.

The big ARC trooper blaster rifle is a WESTAR-M5 (all caps), because I named it, and it's my nod to the Heckler and Kock MP5, which I would like for Christmas. You won't see that anywhere yet, but it exists in continuity and I recall telling folks on TF.N that was what it was - we didn't have a name for it befoe that other than "big ARC rifle" and it needed naming. (Yes, I'm an avid namer of kit in continuity. I named the Cip-Quad and Z-6 rotary blaster from the CW cartoons because I wanted to use them in Triple Zero. Rawk! Kudos to the stormie who manages to replicate one of those two...)

The DC-15B seems to come from gaming - it's not listed in the 'Cron but is mentioned on one gaming web site as a blaster later used by the Rebel Alliance. As I have no official LFL source for that, I can't verify it." Tb1019 03:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • That seems to be correct, but where does she talk about the Episode 3 rifle? Could you email her back and talk about the picture of the second weapon on the front page? EDIT: It's also on the cover of Battlefront II. A clonetrooper is holding it. Ironically, the weapon used in BF2 is a DC-15a :)

Tokakeke 01:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Merge Debate

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Clone Weaponry should not be merged into List Of SW Weapons. It is simply too long. I'm going to remove some of the clonetrooper weaponry stuff from there, and point to the main CW page. Tokakeke 21:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The article could easily be merged if the cruft of this article was removed. – Mipadi 17:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in this article is 'cruft'. If you think it is, fix it yourself and we'll see. I split this off for a reason: there are a number of diverse weapons used by only one character in the movies. Tokakeke 19:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
There's a good deal of information that is of interest to no one outside of a few Star Wars fans. I'm a big fan of Star Wars, but this is a general-purpose encyclopedia, and there's a lot of information in the article that is highly detailed information that is not really of interest in a general-purpose setting. Still, I don't mind having the information; I just don't see what makes this weaponry so special that it merits a separate article from List of Star Wars weapons. It makes the information harder to find and harder to maintain. – Mipadi 20:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I realize that, but the reason it was split off was simply because it was so specific to (a) certain character(s). If it has to be merged, at least make another section in List of Star Wars weapons. Tokakeke 06:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Which character is it specific to? – Mipadi 00:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Clone troopers. Tokakeke 04:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Right, but that's not a specific character, it's a whole bunch of generic characters. Han Solo's blaster is still featured on the List of Star Wars weapons article, yet that weapon is used only by a specific character.– Mipadi 16:59, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are a group of characters using diverse weaponry in one specific category. It needs to have its own section, whether in a separate article or new category.Tokakeke 20:57, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The DL-44 wasn't unique to Han. It was a fairly popular model of blaster. The clone weaponry, on the other hand, was made specifically for the GAR. -LtNOWIS 23:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Fancruft can easily be reduced
  2. It's a minor Fictional series of weapons that could easily be merged into a general list. If the lists become too long, they can be split into smaller lists. We can even give it its own subheader. Deckiller 23:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Since these guidelines are clear, I am merging Clone Weaponry into its own section in 72 hours, unless objections are renewed. Deckiller 21:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of the "trivia" section appears to be of the form "This clone weapon looks like a combination of X and Y Star Wars weapons" or "This clone weapon was derived from this real world weapon." Without citations, this could qualify as original research. Personally I think a lot of it could be excised without significantly impacting the subject, and if that's removed, there's definitely not enough to warrant keeping this separate from List of Star Wars ranged weapons. --BinaryTed 19:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the article should be merged for the same reasons as discussed above. It makes articles harder to find and this feels a little too wookepedian instead of wikipedian to me to have its own article. Tutmosis 00:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to be WP:BOLD and merge it. Deckiller 16:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You Guys are all wrong see the DC-15 model is a standard blater "rifle" used by the clones, You know the big long ones. The DC-15s s standing for sidearm is the smaller versions favored by the 501st legion. The clone commado's use a DC-17 blaster rifle that is interchangeable between sniper gernade launcher and regular blaster rifle. The DC-17b "b" standing for backup is the small pistol still used by clone commandos but look more like a beretta m9. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.217.6 (talk) 22:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arghh!

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Why do you people care?!!! It's not a big deal at all, and I don't see any reasons to remove it! It's in place because Clone weapons ARE weapons of the SW Universe! God you people need a life, and that's coming from an SW fanboi!!!

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