Talk:City Line (Merseytravel)

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	This article is supported by WikiProject UK Railways (assessed as Low-importance).

This article lacks references.

It is requested that an a map be included in this article to improve its quality. Please work with the Maps task force to create and add a map to this article.

The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:City Line diagram.

Route diagram

Does this page need a route diagram like the ones for the Northern Line and Wirral Line? Anyone want to have a go at drawing one? Rhmeuk 00:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No longer exists?

It looks like the City Line no longer exists as part of the Merseyrail network. It does not currently appear anywhere on the Merseyrail website Njlawley (talk) 18:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merseytravel

That's because it's operated for Merseytravel by Northern Rail, rather than Merseyrail like the other two lines ([1]). JaJaWa |talk 20:37, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

City line renamed page

Sorry for muddling this up but I hope/trust I have corrected this page from an earlier renaming to City line (Merseytravel) by another user. Babydoll9799 (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That was me - Redrose64 has cleaned up the bin fire from my attempted move to account for the section above. Sorry about the mess, and thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ADTelo (talk • contribs) 00:34, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to say this is under the “future” section. Maurice Oly (talk) 19:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please look at

Can “ Northern Rail operate the trains on this electrified section of tracks.[10]” please be looked at and changed as the link in [10] is dead and Northern Rail no longer exist. Maurice Oly (talk) 19:09, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 08:15, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

City Line (Merseyrail) → City Line (Merseytravel) – Merseyrail's website carries barely any mention of the City Line because it is not operated by them. It is timetabled, managed, branded, etc. by Merseytravel. As part of fixing the confusion caused by including the City Line with the Merseyrail article, something that was pushed strongly in the past by a now-blocked editor, tidying up that article would be greatly assisted by renaming this article and then moving most of the City Line content out of Merseyrail into Merseytravel where it belongs. 10mmsocket (talk) 18:08, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral comment - page OP wishes to move page to is the same as the current page? Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 18:19, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Oops! Sorry, that was finger trouble. Thanks for pointing that out. Now fixed. 10mmsocket (talk) 18:21, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and based on the following I mentioned at Talk:Merseyrail:
- 1) Merseytravel maps are now called "Local Rail Network" maps, with "Merseyrail Northern/Wirral line" labelled, but just "City Line". Merseyrail the operator only cover those two on the bottom table. The map used to be called the "Merseyrail Map" with the City Line shown, such as in 2009 but recent maps (apparently since 2017), stopped using the term "Merseyrail Map" and class only the Northern and Wirral under "Merseyrail" (the TOC) in the operators table. If Wayback Machine can be relied on (assumning no more archives means the page was removed), Merseytravel used to have a Merseyrail City Line page in 2018, but that no longer exists. The current website simply states "City Line".
- 2) Merseyrail (the operator) clearly excludes the line and from the "Merseyrail network". The Merseyrail article is also about the operator, therefore simple clarity. Under the assumption that article (mainly) refers to the operator.
- 3) Network Rail's Liverpool City Region Strategic Rail Study 2020, The Merseyrail network is an entirely third rail Direct Current (DC) electrified network spread over the Liverpool City Region, north Cheshire and south west Lancashire. The network is split in two: the Wirral Line and the Northern Line.
- 4) The Liverpool City Region Combined Authority Long Term Rail Strategy uses Merseyrail and City Line networks implying they are somewhat separate, which Merseytravel sometimes specify as Merseyrail Electrics Network in the document.
- Note: Although a 2022 Liverpool Echo article uses across its Wirral, City and Northern lines, Merseyrail is [...] and later Merseyrail [...] with its new lines - named the Northern Line, City Line and Wirral Line, but later states [The City Line] now are on routes operated by Northern Rail and aren’t served by Merseyrail trains [2] and The modern Northern and Wirral lines were created and linked through a number of engineering projects which took place during the 1970s [...] finished in 1977, which created the integrated Merseyrail network that we see today, with additional references to 1970s Merseyrail, [3] therefore I believe the City Line was supposed to be a core part of Merseyrail, but is no longer considered (at least mainly) as such compared to the Northern and Wirral lines, in particular by the transport bodies, especially in relation to potential devolution.

These are most of the 'official' ones I could find, be free to add other or contradictory ones. But minimally, from a organisational standpoint, "Merseyrail" in relation to this article is merely a brand name, the company does not operate on the line, and the brand is applied by Merseytravel. Naming an article with an effective brand name which can be confused with the train operator, which is more likely associated with the name (and it takes a big chunk of the Merseyrail article), does not give clarity to the reader, therefore support.

@10mmsocket:, I assume this is a counter-proposal to my proposed split at Merseyrail? Agree this seems a better solution than a split. Dank Jae 01:42, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a counter proposal, rather it's a first step towards rationalisation, part of which will be reducing the city line content to an absolute minimum in the Merseyrail article. Will the split be needed? Probably not. Whatever, due to yesterday's event I feel that we can move forward and gain consensus more easily now. 10mmsocket (talk) 06:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 18 December 2024

It has been proposed in this section that City Line (Merseytravel) be renamed and moved to City line (Merseytravel).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

City Line (Merseytravel) → City line (Merseytravel) – To match the sentence case of the other Merseyrail lines, e.g. Wirral line, and also to follow how every Transport for London underground and overground line is named, e.g. Victoria line, Elizabeth line 10mmsocket (talk) 07:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 10mmsocket (talk) 15:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Support~~ Given that the two other Mersey lines, plus all the TfL lines have "line" in lowercase, it seems sensible to move this one too. --10mmsocket (talk) 15:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:RM § Nom, expressing support for your own proposal is discouraged, since it can create confusion about the number of people commenting. Your support is implied. I have thus formatted your self-support declaration with strikethrough. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth pointing out that the articles for the other two lines started off with 'Lines' but it was changed to 'lines'. IIRC, the user that did it didn't take the time to propose and discuss the changes, as you've rightly done. LicenceToCrenellate (talk) 15:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose it's always referred to in uppercase by Merseytravel and all other sources, it's clearly the official name. G-13114 (talk) 15:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment TfL are outliers in using lowercase "line" when naming their services and should not be used as precedent for other systems who have their own naming conventions and style guidelines. Thryduulf (talk) 15:28, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - All of the Merseyrail documentation and signage uses an uppercase 'L'. Not sure what TfL have to do in any of this, we're not in Camdem anymore, Toto. LicenceToCrenellate (talk) 15:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]