Talk:Character actor/Archives/2012
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Character actor. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Lord Olivier?
Yes, he was a peer--not sure what you're asking. I agree the sentence is awkward, perhaps the author was trying to say that Olivier was unlike a character actor? Quill 23:15, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Definition
Think I should point out that traditionally "character actor" means something quite different in the UK to the USA, and that this should be reflected in the article.--MacRusgail 22:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
- I've heard it used to describe actors like Johnny Depp or Gary Oldman, who prefer to play a wide variety of unusual roles.--Fallout boy 16:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
- The UK definition seems to be valid across Europe, such as in Germany, where a character actor is a versatile actor who usually plays unconventional roles. It is also applicable to former lead/hero actors or comedians who later turn to "deeper", more sophisticated roles, like Sean Connery, Tom Hanks, Bill Murray, or Gene Hackman.
This is just the opposite of the article's definition. Maybe the article is wrong??!? -- megA 11:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)- I agree. This page is poorly defined, and I ddi not recognise this version of a 'character actor'.Halbared (talk) 10:04, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- I have always thought of a character actor as someone who is hired to play a certain type of character, i.e. wise old man (Morgan Freeman), mechanic (George Kennedy, Harry Dean Stanton), corrupt senator (Brian Cox), police chief (Peter Boyle), intense sniper (Barry Pepper). Type casting is particularly prevalent amongst character actors, but not exclusive to them; Johnny Depp and Keanu Reeves are both leading actors who have struggled with typecasting, the former more successfully than the latter. James Mason was a leading actor, but he was often typecast as Nazi generals, whereas Anton Diffring, who also played Nazi generals, was a character actor, because that was his bag. And of course this is all fluid, because Morgan Freeman has worked as a lead actor, and as a support actor. Harry Dean Stanton was lead in "Paris, Texas". But then again who am I? We would need a proper reference book, or Roger Ebert, to determine Ernest Borgnine's position in the cinematic firmament (he was a character actor, but he won an Oscar in a lead role). -Ashley Pomeroy 22:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Leslie Halliwell, with his usual brevity, wrote, "Usually thought of as one who does not play romantic leads." I find this definition serviceable, as it does not rule out lead roles, only traditionally "sexy" lead roles, which Marty (to whom you refer) would seem to be a deliberate reaction against. Richard K. Carson (talk) 05:30, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- The UK definition seems to be valid across Europe, such as in Germany, where a character actor is a versatile actor who usually plays unconventional roles. It is also applicable to former lead/hero actors or comedians who later turn to "deeper", more sophisticated roles, like Sean Connery, Tom Hanks, Bill Murray, or Gene Hackman.
- I've heard it used to describe actors like Johnny Depp or Gary Oldman, who prefer to play a wide variety of unusual roles.--Fallout boy 16:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Wikkipedia is wrong, you have defined "Type Casting" not "Character Actor"
- AfgreedHalbared (talk) 10:04, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- I agree as well. I've heard Johnny Depp refered to as being the ultimate character actor because he is able to play so many different types of characters. FearNotMan (talk) 23:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Copy Edit
Made the following change to the second paragraph: They tend to help the leading character "aspire" the major change that always occurs to him/her. To: They tend to help the leading character aquire the major change that always occurs to him/her. I do think it's possible the author meant to say something like: They tend to help the leading character aspire "to" the major change that always occurs to him/her., but I think that is even more awkward and so assume that was not the intent.
Joe
List of character actors?
Does anyone think we should make a list of notable character actors?--Raguleader 18:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I have removed Steve Buscemi from the list of character actors, as I don't see at all why he should be considered belonging to this category. Even if some don't agree, it is definitely arguable, and as this list is supposed to show typical examples of character actors, Steve Buscemi shouldn't be quoted here. Nabab 14:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- Ironically, Steve Buscemi not only is (or at least was) a character actor, but he was pretty much the very definition of character actor - he's the first person I always think of when describing the concept. He was that guy that you knew instantly, you recognized him in every movie, you could sort of describe him, and you had no idea who he was. Perhaps he's gained enough fame now that it's no longer true, but it certainly was a few years ago. Wait a few more years, we can put him back... "Get me a young Steve Buscemi." --JayLevitt (talk) 21:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- And I'd throw in David Morse in that list as well. I think in my eyes he's the perfect fit as an accomplished character actor in Hollywood. What say denizens of the democratic/fascist kingdom? Bioskope (talk) 21:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- I removed Daniel Day-Lewis from the list. He is well known for being a method actor, a fact which is clearly stated with supporting citations on his own Wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TalonG32 (talk • contribs) 23:20, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
- I was surprised that Arnold Schwarzenegger was not listed in the cross-over section; he seemed like such an obvious candidate for inclusion. Synetech (talk) 19:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
- I definitely think it is a good idea to list a samping of character actor names, because so often we see them many times in films, but we never know their real names. The lists in this Wiki article give readers an excellent opportunity to browse the various actors' names and see their pictures, which may trigger a memory and give a reader a chance to learn more about a character actor. The archetype character actor is Charles Lane, who always played a grouchy, no-nonsense, fussy, irritating professional who created a perfect comic foil to Lucille Ball's ditzy character in many of her TV shows. Who, besides those of us who love the entertainment field so much that we have extensive libraries of reference books, would know who Charles Lane is just by reading his name? But when you see Charles Lane's picture, you may say "Oh yeah, I remember him". The idea is to introduce as many Wikipedia articles as possible and to make Wikipedia as informative, educational and enjoyable as possible.
- Character actors are a popular sub-category in film history. Film historians have published extensive encyclopedic directories, showing their pictures, that help fans identify them, and these books can be highly entertaining and fun. I see no harm in listing some character actors' names in this Wiki article. JGKlein (talk) 19:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
"Reasons to become a character actor"
"Actors from outside of the U.S. may be famous in their own countries, but find their roles limited in the U.S. for any number of reasons (see Marcel Dalio, Cantinflas and Jet Li)."
^ How is this automatically a reason to become a character actor? Please do NOT assume an American audience! Tomalak Geret'kal (talk) 23:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Phil, crowned by The New York Times Magazine on December 21, 2008, as "... the greatest character actor of our time." is not even mentioned in your definition of character Actor. Someone please do an update. 96.224.102.187 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC) abe Sultan
Village Idiot is a red link at this article
- To change or not to change ? : Village Idiot, instead of Village Idiot.
Cf. Village Idiot : This page has been deleted. The deletion log for the page is provided below for reference.
At typical roles for character actor, you could see:
...but, now, I don't know a (good) solution to the red link. Do you?. (...) Stop! Maybe, this one!. My first thought was: gonna changing it. But this is the question: To change or not to change ? (dis-) / advantages?.
- So, here it is: Town drunk or Village Idiot. Ciao! --PLA y Grande Covián (talk) 21:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Gary Oldman is not a character actor
I've removed Gary Oldman's name from the list of character actors who have achieved crossover to stardom. According to me, he's not a character actor. He may have played the leading roles in many films, but that, in no way, defines him as a character actor. He's a typecast actor, specializing in dark, mercurial, intense roles (closely resembling his own personality in the 1990s, and somewhat now, as well). If you call him a character actor, just because he plays fantasy genre and comic book characters presently, in that case, the whole cast of 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy, 'The Chronicles of Narnia' series, and 'Spiderman' series should also be labelled as character actors. In any case, he's highly over-rated, and will never win an Oscar. In my view, Alan Rickman should be considered as a character actor, rather than Gary Oldman. 59.184.153.144 (talk) 08:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Your opinion Gary Oldman is over-rated is an awful reason to remove him from the article. Oldman has a substantial range as an actor, compare him in JFK to True Romance to Air Force One. Your claim that he is typecast seems poorly supported by the range of roles he has played, even if you are correct that he plays them badly. I would agree that Alan Rickman belongs on the list, but I don't see much beyond personal animosity by way of argument for removing Oldman. --Camipco (talk) 08:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
What about Will Smith?
Will Smith is listed as a crossover; however - in his first credited year as an actor, his starring vehicle (The Fresh Prince of Bel Air) was picked up for an eventual 6 year run. While his first 2 feature film credits fit the bill of "character" roles, his third (6 degrees...) was a lead role, and he was anchoring hollywood blockbusters before his sitcom wrapped up. A couple small roles before 20-something high profile leads and founding a successful production house doesn't seem to lend itself to a "crossover" career. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamsorkin (talk • contribs) 14:23, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Some parts of the article wouldn't look out of place on TV Tropes...
Yo. The article is concise, well-written and informative, but a bit too informal for Wikipedia standards IMO, and there are some minor bouts of subjectivity here and there. 89.3.236.183 (talk) 18:17, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
The French Connection
I don't believe there's any french translation for "character/typecast actor". That's probably because the french don't believe actors should undergo such categorization. Any actor is deemed to do either "character acting" (= perform "rôles de composition" in french) and/or remain "typecast" (= "genre" or "typé" in french) anytime throughout his/her career, occasionally or durably, without any of the hierarchical stigma I can sense within the article and all the discussion attached. Actors generally seek for diversity, and life just decides otherwise. One could find Connery's best (leading) performances outside Fleming's Bond, and yet admit he was the one and only 007 agent, all at the same time. 86.64.250.140 (talk) 19:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Discussion of typecasting vs. range missing the point?
I agree with the 'completely incorrect' position on this article, but the definitional debate above may be only obscuring the problem. Simply put, I think we might be trying to find *too much* precision for a term that really--UK, US, or otherwise--can't sustain it, leading to such absurdities as the "career path" section which is an irrelevant, psychologizing mess that should be completely removed. A properly minimalist definition of character actor would be, simply, an actor better recognized for, and often AS, the characters he portrays than as a star or celebrity independent of any specific role(s). These roles could all be intensely stereotyped OR incredibly varied; in fact, this is a false dichotomy, and many character actors could be described in both ways. [Is christopher walken typecast as a sinister inscrutable or does he bring sinister inscrutability to hundred of roles in dozens of genres?] As such, 'character actor' is probably best explained in the slightly amorphous business/economic terms whence it originated. A character actor is an actor whose off-screen/stage appeal is not enough to 'open' his movies or plays; this can mean he's associated with smaller, workmanlike (in the best sense) performances in support of bigger names, or with leading roles in smaller productions driven by the uniqueness and/or prestige of the character/story, or--most typically--a combination of the two. Character actors often become lead, or 'personality' actors, when one of those smaller roles/smaller productions establish the actor himself as an identifiable brand: see Tom Hanks, 'Philadelphia'; Philip Seymour Hoffman, 'Capote'; John Malkovich, 'Being John Malkovich.' The prototypical character actor, however, doesn't graduate to being able play himself or celebrated for a wild array of star turns--that is, not Morgan Freeman or Johnny Depp or Lord Olivier--but rather one who remains valued primarily for the proficiency and professionalism of his 'craft,' whatever its apparent range. --67.81.128.170 (talk) 02:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Of course, the paradox is that a character actor that is celebrated for being a character actor becomes less and less a character actor. This is the case for Walken, Oldman, Malkovich, etc. A good example of someone who's gained wide acclaim and notoriety but still retains the 'character' focus of character acting is Hillary Swank--which nicely demonstrates that the term *usually* but doesn't necessarily follow numerous supporting roles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.128.170 (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Notable Omission
I'd suggest adding Eugene Pallette to the list of character actors. He was in over 200 movies and was probably one of the most recognizable and familiar actors in the 30's and 40's. Even today many people I think would immediately recognize him (especially when they heard him speak) though my guess is few would know his name. Auriferous1 (talk) 10:04, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
I cited a source!!!!
I took the controversial step of actually citing a dictionary definition of the term. I rewrote the introduction to accord with it, since the original introduction seemed to misunderstand the meaning of the term. It's primarily about individuality, not repetition, according to the OED.Downstage right (talk) 18:55, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Scrap It And Start Again
Is there any way we can completely scrap this article and start fresh? This is possibly the worst Wikipedia page I've ever come across; it's a complete abomination. Editing it would serve no purpose here, as most of the information is incorrect.
The problem lies with the fact that most of the contributors have misconstrued the definition of character acting. The only way we can fix this is if we can properly explain what a character acter is. First of all, just because an actor has played a wide range of characters, does not make them a character actor. By that definition, nearly all actors would be character actors.
A character actor is truly versatile. They have they ability to become any character and play that role very convincingly. My best guess is that they'd use method acting to achieve this, however it's not a requirement of character acting.
A character actor should be able to captivate the audience with authenticity and you should find yourself disassociating your connection with the actor's previous characters and becoming completely involved with the current one. For instance, if you're watching Alice In Wonderland, you're probably not even thinking about Jack Sparrow when watching Johnny Depp. The actor should also be capable of taking the character and making it their own; adding unscripted characteristics and eccentricities to give an extra level of depth to the character.
Let's take Bruce Willis for example. I don't think many people will argue the fact that Bruce is a good actor, but no matter what character he's playing, the audience is always aware they're watching Bruce Willis. In contrast let's take Robin Williams. He's another huge household name, but if you've followed his career enough, you'll be well aware of his ability to draw you in to his personas. Unfortunately some will argue that he's not a true character actor since he became heavily typecast in the 90s for his zany comedy style, but he did manage to turn things around with 'One Hour Photo' and show the world what made him famous in the first place. I think it's fair to call him a character actor, but this does lead me to my next point.
Character actors tend to stay away from typecasting since it restricts them from showcasing their talents. As a result they tend to lose out on lead roles but also keep their integrity. There are some lead actors who are character actors e.g. Johnny Depp or Kevin Spacey but most tend to play supporting roles. I think this is why a lot of supporting actors get confused for character actors.
Another thing worth mentioning is that character actors generally change their appearance to match the role. On the other hand, Brad Pitt always looks like Brad Pitt (with the exception of 'Kalifornia'). This is unfortunate since he's one of the few super-famous actors that has the ability to be a character actor, but those abilities are becoming more frequently masked by his choices in typecasted lead roles.
Not sure what else I can add to this to make it clearer. It's not the easiest thing to define since there's a little bit of grey area. Some highly skilled character actors who aren't even featured on this page are William Sanderson and Jim Beaver: both of whom starred in 'Deadwood', and Mark Heap: an exceptionally talented British actor. Also worth a mention are Sam Rockwell who deserves a hell of a lot more recognition than he gets, and Bryan Cranston (haven't seen Breaking Bad yet but I've seen enough of his career to recognise his expansive repertoire). --Djwinger (talk) 23:12, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Completely Incorrect
This entire page is completely incorrect. This page defines a supporting character actor which is arguably not even an example of a character actor. To say that Chris Tucker is a character actor because he is often cast as a stereotypical black sidekick defines him as a typecast actor, not a character actor. A character actor is the exact opposite of this phenomenon. Whereas Chris Tucker is cast to play roles that are (stereotypically) extremely close to his actual personality, a character actor is an actor whose actual personality is rarely exhibited in the roles that they play. For instance, Johnny Depp is a character actor. This can be observed in the stark differences between his most famous roles (Edward Scissorhands, Captain Jack Sparrow, J.M. Barrie, etc.). Although Johnny uses similar techniques in playing these characters, very little of his actual personality leaks into these roles. Johnny Depp is NOT a supporting character in any of these roles. I don't want to create any controversy by editing this entire page, but if nothing is noted in the discussion soon, I certainly will redo this article, as the page is completely incorrect. Also, it's worth noting that I'm American, and the definition cited on this page is incorrect in America as well as the UK. --meb429
Why is Tom Hanks identified as a former character actor? He has been playing lead roles for virtually his entire career. --Metropolitan90 07:54, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
- I'd say that his early stand-up and skit stuff, plus his Bosom Buddies stint and the fact that his early film work was all of the same type makes the sentence accurate as written. Quill 23:15, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree it is all wrong. Study Meissner or Strasburg to understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.104.204 (talk) 13:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The article is quite vague at best, and there is not even a definition provided. I've always thought of a "character actor" as one whose role "types" are generally repeated or derived from that actor being type-cast. Examples to me would be Elisha Cook, Jr. who frequently played some sort of pathetic cowardly type or "fall-guy", or Martin Kosleck always playing a Nazi officer or evil scientist. I have never heard the term applied to actors whose "personality is rarely exhibited in the roles that they play". I would not consider Johnny Depp to be a character actor - maybe a "method" actor by that definition, but perhaps the term's meaning has changed over the years, or has different connotations on either side of the Atlantic. A general Google search of the term would show more results in what I always thought the term implied, but that doesn't necessarily make it right. Finwailin (talk) 19:57, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Definition of character actor is completely incorrect. Character actors are those actors who are able to completely able to disguise themselves while playing a particular character, such that the character's personality is totally reflected in the film, rather than the actor himself/herself. Being called a 'character actor' can be considered to be the greatest achievement for an actor, as it only shows the maximum extent to which an actor can connect to the character that (s)he is portraying, rather than portraying 'himself (or herself)' in the film. Also, for a character actor, the acting skills are challenged and tested to the maximum possible extent, as the characters portrayed by such an actor vary from one film to another. The definition of 'character actor' given in the article is that of a 'Typecast actor', who according to me, is definitely not a character actor. Typecast actors play those characters that are similar or identical to one another (rather than characters having varying personalities). Hence, the acting skills are not challenged. Examples of typecast actors are Julie Andrews (typecast as a nurturing female character, a female mentor), Gary Oldman (typecast as a negative character, having an intense, mercurial dark personality; quite similar to his own), etc. 59.184.153.144 (talk) 08:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree that the article is problematic. I would define a character actor as someone who is able to appear in a relatively small role in terms of screen time but quickly and effectively establish a clear and recognizable character. The roles that character actors play are distinctive and memorable, and often have unique personality types and powerful emotional arcs. In short, character actors are able to efficiently convey to the audience the essence of the character they are playing. I think that character actors may or may not be typecast, I don't think the ability to disguise oneself in a role is a necessary trait of a character actor, although it is a sign of a skilled actor. --Camipco (talk) 08:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
- Agree with 59.184.153.144. It's nothing to do with "eccentricites", depsite some ancient dictionary defintions, or the part having "character". In the trade:
- There are two types of actor: those that always basically play themselves, like Clint Eastwood, and those that can become someone else, like Lawrence Olivier and Robert de Niro. Both types are common. The second type is a character actor. Not a good article unfortunately Meerta (talk) 00:36, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Character acting occurs when an actor makes a significant physical, vocal, external and/or psychlogical adjustment from the actor's primary persona. This is in contrast to personality acting, where an actor simply uses their habitual persona while they act. Examples of accomplished character actors are Anthony Hopkins, Dustin Hoffman, Lily Tomlin and Denzel Washington. Examples of accomplished personality actors are Harrison Ford, Julia Roberts and Halle Berry.
This actually comes from the acting world, what actors, directors, etc teach one another. FYI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.180.140 (talk) 16:18, 30 September 2012 (UTC)