Talk:CEDU/Archive 1

My two cents

I knew a young lady who graduated from this school in 1988, and I can recall her telling me all sorts of unpleasant and downright freaky stories about the place, like people being locked inside of coffins, and other weird, abusive garbage. Obviously such a personal anecdote isn't fit for the article, but people contributing to this article should probably keep an eye out for source material detailing the pseudo-illicit nature of this place. KevinOKeeffe (talk) 04:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I went there and graduated who ever you talked to did also, the coffin was in the very last "propheet" which was kind of a sleep deprivation reprogramming. To say the things that those people did to myself and other children was criminal would be an understatement. To call it garbage because you find it hard to believe is not a fair assessment. I still to this day have nightmares from that place and i graduated in 2000 from nwa. The entire nature of the school was a mix between living in constant fear, they would call it outside of your "comfort zone", peer pressure then these sleep deprivation behavior modification/reprogramming sessions called propheets. If you didnt comply they would send you to a but house. The only thing that saved me personally from such a fate was my fathers refusal to allow them to send me to such a place. I know of 2 very attractive young girls in particular that were raped once they got to that mental institute by the staff there, THE STAFF AT THE SCHOOL KNEW ABOUT THIS AND DID NOTHING. Also about 15 others that went there to be medicated in a comatose like state for who knows how long. Because of the sheer complexity of the reprogramming, and the secret nature about the propheets (supposedly there to protect the kids confessions, really there to protect what they did to us, and there trade secrets) you had a good portion of staff(teachers especially) completely unaware of the true nature of the program. I do not want to completely out myself because i am still embarrassed that i was there, but in a way i feel like a rape victim, its soo wrong. just because i do not wish the whole world to know that i went to that fucked up place and what they did to me does not mean it did not happen. Ray peer group6.

I would also like to add that before the brown schools took over about 8 kids were on pychoactive medication, afterwards only about 12 out of 60+ were not on them. SAME KIDS!!! NOTHING CHANGED BUT THE MANAGEMENT!!

New Biography

Created Biography of Mel Wasserman, founder of CEDU. Please help expand it.

Cdw1952 (talk) 06:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Propheets

Please help identify all 9 propheets.

Cdw1952 (talk) 05:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Truth Children's Brother's Keeper Dreams I Want to Live Values Imagine I & Me Summit —Preceding unsigned comment added by155.188.183.16 (talk) 16:54, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Policy Violations

This article is composed primarily of original research along with a healthy dose of conjecture. The tone of the article and NPOV indicate bias on behalf of the author(s). I will correct these Wiki policy violations after a reasonable period of time has passed thus allowing the original authors to do so.

Cdw1952 (talk) 05:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

It also contains wrong information. Milestones is not tied up in litigation it was on rented property. Staff members guessing what was about to happen when payless paydays occurred, incorporated under a slightly different name and continued the program. Only the furniture might have been in dispute as to ownership although my understanding is that the bankruptcy referee simply let that go. But Milestones never closed but simply went on under new management that has never been seriously challenged. Frog one (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Unless the recent additions by user:NekoSneako are sourced I will remove them. This article already suffers form extensive original research, no need to compound the problem.I ♥ ♪♫ (talk) 02:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Please discuss additions/substractions here

I have moved the contributions of two editors (75.54.92.32 and Doc9871) within the article to the Influence section. While the information may be true, Cascade School was not a CEDU property. In addition the information was not sourced. If the editors wish for the information to remain part of this article they will have to cite sources, otherwise I will delete it after a reasonable period of time.I ♥ ♪ ♫(talk) 04:22, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

No problem moving it out of the section. The IP editor added it to the article and I "fixed" it; but it is certainly true that Michael Allgood and a group of staff and students founded Cascade in 1984 after leaving CEDU. Sources are pretty hard to come by on this, but I will search for them. Before you consider removing it I would recommend a tag instead: it's not damaging to the article and just needs outside verification, really. Cheers :> Doc talk 08:46, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Tagged. CDW ♥'s ♪ ♫(talk) 03:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Some of the unsourced material in this article has been in the article for quite some time. Presumably sites such as the CEDU or Brown Schools websites were the source and have subsequently disappeared. That is not reason enough to remove everything. -- Cdw ♥'s ♪ ♫(talk) 21:49, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

if the source no longer exists, it's now unsourced and should come out. The fact that it has been in the article for a long time is irrelevant. Snertking (talk) 06:06, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

If it was sourced when it went in the article, it is not magically unsourced when a website is no longer available. It should stay and more accessible sources should be found or archives of the original sources. Rifter0x0000 (talk) 13:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

If the source is no longer accessible, it should be tagged as dead and left in. Inability to access a source does not make the information unverified.Slywriter (talk) 00:17, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

isac website cites

pretty much all the info that cites the isac.org website needs to come out, as that site is now defunct and has been specifically excluded from the wayback machine/archive.org. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snertking (talk • contribs) 06:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

struggling teens WP:RS issues

I seem to recall there being some consensus on other pages that strugglingteens.com, as an industry marketing organization, is not WP:RS. Seems that the overwhelming majority of the article is backed by cites from that page. We may need to stub this. Snertking (talk) 06:12, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

STUB IT!!!!! """ Lon had worked as the admissions director at the CEDU program, Rocky Mountain Academy, in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, and decided that he could better help parents find the most appropriate placement for their at-risk children if he was independent."""" Just like Pharma, no one is 'independent'...Stugglingteens.com is BS for a source. Contact Info: 7119 2nd St | PO Box 1107 | Bonners Ferry, ID 83805 Probably a website run by one of the owners/employees of formerly RMA/BCA, given how they shit talk Brown, yet sugar coat CEDU. There ain't much in BF, some ranches and the cults (er, EG boarding schools). Population 300. References to Quality of Service/Life are BS. "Provo is a great place"...No it isn't. Provo is LOCKDOWN (with heavy medication [drugging], think momma in T2, that is what lockdown is). Provo is where they threaten to send you if you 'don't get it'. I learned real early on after the first talk I got ('you can either get it here, or there'), it usually only takes one. I went there 97-98, before it was a 'Brown School', Brown didn't buy it till I was good and gone. And it actually got a little better, from what I heard from other students, after Brown took it over. But they assumed liability somehow with the CEDU debacle and couldn't survive all that crap. If they strayed from the 'original' CEDU philosophy it was probably a GOOD THING! Parents you need to watch out for the snakes in the grass...These programs can promise you the moon and the stars, hell they even have STATISTICS backing up their claims on how SUCCESSFUL they are. FACT: Everyone I met there, went straight back to whatever the heck they were doing before they got there. But somehow that doesn't make their stats (for many reasons for you to consider (reliability of statistical gathering, doctoring of data, ect.). So how do I cite myself as a source for RMA, which was just CEDU for kids that didn't have 'special needs'. Want a good source, try CEDU Documentary on You Tube. Oh and how about the time my fever was so high I was hallucinating, but all they could do is give me some ibuprofren. Yeah, you don't get an on call doctor 7miles from Bonners Ferry for 50K/year. You get the lunch lady and a bunch of OTC remedies, execpt for the kids on the pharma train...All class 3 and up for them. user: Nikopedia303 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikopedia303 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Needs more on the abuse

Given that the abuse in these institutions is basically their defining feature (and the subject of several lawsuits), it seems odd that it's mentioned only in little asides and very briefly in the "In the news" section; it seems to me it should have its own section. I can't do it at the moment but I encourage anyone else to take a crack at it (or to explain below why it hasn't been included, I guess). --DearPrudence (talk) 22:12, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Incidents timeline sections

these are ambiguous, and I'm working to consolidate the reliably sourced material into a more balanced history of the industry, and removing both incidents and timeline subheadings.

SkidMountTubularFrame (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:03, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

struggling teens

as well intentioned as this industry blog is, it also fails per wiki source and npov.

otherwise unreference, the material will be removed, and the citations removed.

thanks! SkidMountTubularFrame (talk)

Sources

this article will require closely watched sources. most of the links are to YouTube videos and blogs by people close to the source. please address and discuss before re-adding links to blogs and YouTube.

removed material that fails Wikipedia sources, again.

the blog and industry marketing website fail on numerous wiki policy, and will be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SkidMountTubularFrame (talk • contribs) 19:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC) reverted edit that didn't include citation SkidMountTubularFrame (talk)

I found some extra sources might useful or not

article by teen magzine from 1973 https://archive.org/details/sim_teen_1973-07_17_7/page/44/mode/2up?q=cedu

Book I promised my dad by Cheryl Landon. https://archive.org/details/ipromisedmydadin00land/page/132/mode/2up?q=cedu

article by details magzine from 2000-10 https://archive.org/details/sim_details_2000-10_19_1/page/n221/mode/2up?q=cedu

Directory of Experiential Therapy and Adventure-Based Counseling Programs listing by ERIC from 1992 https://archive.org/details/ERIC_ED398021/page/n25/mode/2up?q=cedu

Oh the glory of it all by Wilsey, Sean https://archive.org/details/ohgloryofitall00wils/page/288/mode/2up?q=cedu 1keyhole (talk) 08:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)