Talk:Blackened death metal

Satanica?

Satanica was NOT the first album to fuse black and death metal. That album came out in 1999! Pessimist were together in 1988! This article needs to be fixed up.70.18.251.175 (talk) 00:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Dissection's The Somberlain had already meshed black and death six years before Satanica. I'd even risk saying that Vital Remains's Let Us Pray did a bit of that as well. Musicaindustrial (talk) 00:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

death metal

Is this really a subgenre of death metal? To me it seems like it's more of a description that fits certain death or black metal bands, more than a specific genre. Mr. Death 23:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this should be a specific genre either. Bands using both styles' features is nothing new, but I think the moniker death/black is pretty intuitive without being made into a genre. Darkthrone, a major black band had a death metal album, so the connections between the two styles are quite clear. Ehm, omitting the (old) usual metal infighting between fans and bands

This article should be moved. It could remain as a subgenre in the Death Metal article, but like the commen above said, it's not a specific genre, but a descriptor.

I have never heard of "blackened death metal" in anywhere but Wikipedia. Sources of the term being used in media should be provided, or the page be deleted. - Quirk 13:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Blackened Death Metal is popular Europe especially in Poland and Austria. Belphegor's 1st Album "the last supper" is definitely pure Death metal, but their 2nd CD "Blutsabbath" could be seen(1999), as the first blackened Death metal production. This genre is really underground (even in Europe)some people don't know the difference,but there's a homogene mix of ultra-fast "black drums", mostly "death riffs", screams and death grunts. The lyrics often deal with Satanic content. sorry for my bad english mfg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.226.15.82 (talk) 21:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I think this "Blackened death metal" is an original research. I haven't found books and web-site about its history. The band of this presumed genre could be simply labeled as black/death metal or death/black metal. --Born Again 83 (talk) 13:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The terminology has been used fairly often outside wikipedia. For instance, a number of reviews of Belphegor's 'Pestapokalypse VI' among others have used the term 'blackened death metal'.

• Delete and merge. It's a subgenre not worthy of its own page. Malick78 (talk) 09:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree. This same problem is present in the "brutal death metal" and "melodic death metal" wiki, which should just be mentioned in the main death metal article. Death metal is a subgenre of heavy metal, but "brutal death metal" and "blackened death metal" and "melodic death metal" are descriptive terms that I think exist ONLY WITHIN death metal and therefore is not worthy of its own article. I think it would be perfectly sufficient if the death metal article had a paragraph's worth of information for the differences between each of these terms. I don't think the differences between the styles are so severe or major that they can't be reduced to a few sentences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.142.188.93 (talk) 19:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

If a band plays more than one genre, it is usually reffered to as Black/Death Metal or Thrash/Death Metal or whatever (just to indicate that both genres are applicable) but not as Blackened Death Metal or Trashed Death Metal or whatever. And how do you call a band that plays mainly Black Metal with Death Metal influences instead of vice versa? a Deathened Black Metal band maybe? Come on, only when notable magz and books consitently start using the term "Blackened Death Metal", can this term be used as a Wiki-page. If a band wishes to discribe itself as Progressive Epic Thrash/Death Metal or whatever, cheers to that, but don't make it a seperate Wiki entry. Page should just be deleted...81.88.110.49 (talk) 10:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Deicide?

would deicide be considered blackened death metal? Their sound is death metal and they have satanic themes just as black metal does. 68.119.197.242 (talk) 01:18, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Death metal can be satanic too but that doesn't define a genre. How it sounds musically is how bands are defined. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 01:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

That unsourced Behemoth sentence

There appears to be no source to state that "blackened death metal" as we currently understand the term (if indeed we accept the term) was started with Behemoth's Satanica. There are plenty of examples of black/death metal crossovers before this; The Somberlain and Storm of the Light's Bane spring to mind for instance. That element of the article should probably be excised without source. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I removed the sentence after checking the release date of Satanica and after checking Belphegor's and Dissection's albums. I think a history section should be made for this as the start of the sentence would be good if we could find a source (and there probably is one out there) and obviously make the characteristics section more clear. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 01:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

No worries. I'm still a bit unconvinced by the new wording... what we effectively are going to end up with is a fairly small OR bit of "characteristics" (this is fairly far from a distinct genre) and a huge list of black metal bands that use death metal elements or death metal bands that use black metal elements. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 02:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion

I have nominated for AfD as this is basically an unsourced, made up genre. Someone presumably having a laugh. 90.214.234.45 (talk) 21:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How did the article survive deletion? It is still unsourced and most of the talk on this page indicates that it is an unheard of (presumably non-existent) genre.86.46.194.55 (talk) 18:03, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

It didn't survive for say and it's due for merging/redirect, using the death metal talk page. Also, you should see WP:INDENT. FireCrystal (talk) 18:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

well essentially this genre is death metal which employs some black metal playing styles, attitude, appearance, lyrical content etc. Oh yeah, was quite shocked not to see Necrophobic's 'The Nocturnal Silence' on this. 86.11.41.126 (talk) 12:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

New form in 2018

The article is substantially changed from this version, which it had back in 2008 when it was voted for it to be merged into Death metal. Sources abound. I initially incorrectly tagged it as CS4, but given the major changes, which are properly sourced, I believe we can safely keep it in wikipedia. --1l2l3k (talk) 15:51, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Lead section

According to this and this, the lead section should be longer. Should we blend part of the characteristic section to the lead?~SML • TP 21:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

@ABC paulista:@Issan Sumisu: ~SML • TP 17:11, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Yeah probably, I've never been good at writing leads. Issan Sumisu (talk) 17:28, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

The Behemoth sentence in the lead shouldn’t be there. It’s kind of like a black dot pink painting.. ~SML • TP 17:47, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Issan Sumisu: ~SML • TP 17:54, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Looking back, I think when I was gathering my sources, I mixed up some. I'm pretty sure the ones I put for that behemoth statement were meant for the list of bands and the statement was supposed to be supported by thequietus.com/articles/14452-nergal-interview-behemoth, but I must have not payed much attention to it because it only states them as being one of the biggest extreme metal bands, not specifically black death. Issan Sumisu (talk) 18:01, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Issan Sumisu:@ABC paulista: By the way, is their conscencus to merge the characteristics section the the lead section? ~SML • TP 00:58, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a good idea, since the lead should be a brief summary of the articles' content, and the characteristics section is only one part of it. Giving too much proeminence to a given part of the subject on the lead, with said subject doesn't even having its own section well developed, would go against MOS:LEAD.

Also, don't need to ping me, I've already put this article on my watchlist. ABC paulista (talk) 02:33, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

According to Peereview, this article should:

• Be copyedited
• Have a free use image in the top right corner of the page
• Have an apprpiate number of paragraphs (2 or 3 maybe) in the lead

~SML • TP 19:33, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Issan Sumisu:@ABC paulista: ~SML • TP 19:46, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Lead section

When exactly has Bestial Black Metal been replaced by war metal? -- Zz (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

When exactly was Bestial Black Metal a more used term than War Metal? ABC paulista (talk) 21:31, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

All the time. Where are your so called facts? -- Zz (talk) 21:34, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

You are the one claiming that Bestial Black Metal is a more used term than War Metal. The burden of proof is on you. ABC paulista (talk) 21:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

No, the burden of proof is on the article. And, since you want it to be this way, it is on you -- Zz (talk) 21:47, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

It's not me who "want it to be this way", it's just that the section has been formatted this way since the beginning and the sources presented use more the term War Metal than Bestial Black Metal. You are the one who want it to be that way without providing reasoning and resources to justify this change. ABC paulista (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

There were several deletions and reinsertions. And even if it were the original version, that would not be a measure of truth. Nonetheless, which sources do you refer to? We might agree on a set of reasonable ones. -- Zz (talk) 22:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

In all versions of this section, even before this article was created and it only existed on the Black Metal page, it was always referred mainly as War metal, with Bestial black metal being added some time later. Its contents never changed much since its creation. I'm not referring to any source in particlar, but to all ones that are presented. In general, they use mostly War metal. Athough the Metal Hammer and Rock Hard ones are especially highly regarded, for being specialized printed media. ABC paulista (talk) 22:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)