Talk:Biniverse

Article Rating

FYI: I just changed the article rating from B to C using WP:Rater. Royiswariii (talk) 12:45, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I think you have meant "from C to B", but no worries. Thank you for the recent ratings on Bini-related articles and Kaia (group).

Just a friendly note: You might have noticed that the Rater tool’s dialog includes a machine-generated prediction of article quality (from ORES) in the lower right corner. While this prediction can be helpful for quickly assessing the quality of articles, it's important to remember that it should be taken with a grain of salt as human evaluation of article quality is continually needed. You can also find this note at Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Assessment#Rater and User:Evad37/rater#Assessment advice. If you need guidance on assessing content quality, you can refer to the grading scheme table found in Wikipedia:Content assessment. AstrooKai (Talk • Contribs) 13:08, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your friendly note! I always check Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Assessment#Rater and User:Evad37/rater#Assessment advice since the rater was a prediction and need a human evaluation for that. Royiswariii (talk) 13:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Grand Biniverse

Is the Grand Biniverse considered part of the initial Biniverse concert series, or is it a separate event? My understanding is that the initial Biniverse refers specifically to the series of concerts that began at the New Frontier Theater and expanded to regional venues in the Philippines and a North American tour. By contrast, the Grand Biniverse seems to be a distinct concert event set for the Araneta Coliseum, likely designed to be a larger, standalone show following the initial Biniverse run.

Could anyone confirm if the Grand Biniverse is indeed meant as an independent follow-up rather than part of the original Biniverse series? Especially since it is mentioned in Biniverse § Araneta Coliseum that the Grand Biniverse would be a different show from the previous Biniverse concerts. AstrooKai (Talk) 05:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It was my understanding that it is a culminating act. Borgenland (talk) 05:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Further, it remains to be seen whether sufficient sources exist to document GBV as a stand-alone. Borgenland (talk) 05:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Grand Biniverse set list

Bini members Sheena and Colet performed both Billie Jean and Smooth Criminal during their duo performance, but most reliable sources generalized them as a "Michael Jackson medley". Is it fine to explicitly list the two songs under the set list or remove them since the sources don't explicitly mention them? To conform with Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth (Wikipedia:Verifiability)? AstrooKai (Talk) 14:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately I am inclined to remove on grounds of WP:OR. Borgenland (talk) 14:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hoping tho that the follow up to this article [1] mentions the exact song. Borgenland (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I have read that source earlier. Unfortunately, I think it's not a reliable source (in case it will be used in future date), since it's primarily the author's opinion or POV about the concert (since they use "I" as way to express their opinion).

For now, I will remove the entry of Colet and Sheena's duo performance on the set list per WP:NOR and WP:V. I do looking forward for a follow-up or update on the existing reliable sources to explicitly mention Sheena and Colet's songs on their duo performances. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not reliable if one wishes to wants to find adjectives, but it can stand for a matter-of-fact who-what-where-when query. Borgenland (talk) 14:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I see. Just want to let you know that I have removed the duo performance from the set list for the said reason.

Anyone who wishes to ask me regarding this may do it on this thread. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

There's also a problem with B HU U R but the ref still needs to be salvaged if only to specify when Vice Ganda attended. Borgenland (talk) 14:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The note about Vice Ganda's attendance, as well as Regine Velasquez's may be also removed if we would consider both WP:NOR and WP:V. Not just because they're not explicitly stated in the cited article, but they also seem to be a self-interpretation by the editor who added them based on their experience of the concert. Also, per WP:FULLCITE, all content must be verifiable, and that includes the source explicitly stating the material. AstrooKai (Talk) 15:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

GBV Image

Is there a poster than can be used for GBV? Just like in the NFT. Borgenland (talk) 14:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

There is. In fact, it was actually added in the article back then but was removed. You can re-add them if it's fine, but the image file was removed per WP:F5. You can upload it again. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I'm planning to add an infobox for the Biniverse § Araneta Coliseum to include the poster, but I'm having second thoughts about it. Would it be appropriate to add another infobox for a subsection, even though there's already a main infobox? Though, the main infobox only pertains to the NFT concert. AstrooKai (Talk) 18:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I think in this case we would need a community discussion on which poster best represents this whole concert series. Personally I'm inclinced to replace the current one with the GBV. Borgenland (talk) 12:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Also, personally, I'm inclined to replace the poster in the main infobox with the poster of the most recent Biniverse concert. Presently, this would be GBV's, but if the poster for the Philippine Arena is released, then I prefer the poster for that concert to be placed in the infobox. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

calling @Royiswariii, @Orojackson56 and @Indo360 for thoughts. Borgenland (talk) 14:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, people!

Maybe can add another infobox per MOS:INFOBOX or just a poster just add what's the purpose of the poster and where do you put the poster.

To be clear, I will mention my designated mentor CFA to answer this question too. Also, mentioning again Indo360 since it didn't mention. Royiswariii Talk! 01:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Royiswariii. Yes, you can use multiple infoboxes in an article if the consensus is that it would be appropriate. See also: Help:Infobox#Combining multiple infoboxes. If you're going to use a non-free image, though, you have to make sure to fill out a fair-use rationale that explains how it fulfills the non-free content criteria even if it is not the main topic of the article. C F A 12:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for helping us CFA!

AstrooKai, Borgenland I hope this question are answered. If you have any questions just ping me or go to my talk page. Royiswariii Talk! 13:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

None. Leaving it out to the rest to make the infobox as labeling images are not exactly my expertise. Borgenland (talk) 13:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, I'm notifying you all that I am currently working a article for new christmas single song of Bini "Joy to the World". Royiswariii Talk! 13:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Royiswariii! Thanks for being interested in drafting an article for Bini's "Joy to the World". I'm open to any request for assistance, so feel free to reach out if you need anything.

I also want to remind you about WP:NCOVER—make sure the article can be reasonably detailed based on facts independent of the original (enough uniqueness from the original version). Happy editing! AstrooKai (Talk) 17:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Actual names of each performance

Since there is a chronology section on the concert infoboxes, I wondered if the term "Biniverse" refers to the NFT concert and the regional and North American legs or just the NFT concert. Since "concert" refers to a single musical performance, for example, "Biniverse: The First Solo Concert", which refers to the NFT performance. Should "Biniverse" (which refers to the entire tour) be used for the chronology when referring to the last concert, or should the official names be used? Here are the official names of the concert shows based on the marketing materials by the management and sources:

• Biniverse: The First Solo Concert (refers to the New Frontier Theater show) [1][2]
• Biniverse Baguio [2]
• Biniverse Cebu [2]
• Biniverse GenSan [2]
• The Grand Biniverse (the Araneta Coliseum concert) [3]
• Grand Biniverse: The Valentine Repeat (the soon-to-be Philippine Arena concert) [4]

My concern is the accuracy of reflecting these concert names in the chronology section since "Biniverse" refers to these shows as a whole, and the fact that "Biniverse" is shown as the last concert in the infobox of Biniverse § Araneta Coliseum. AstrooKai (Talk) 15:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Wasn't there the previous renaming discussion before here? Borgenland (talk) 01:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the article's name, I'm talking about the concerts' names in the chronology section of the infoboxes. AstrooKai (Talk) 09:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Royiswariii as the creator of the extra infobox. Borgenland (talk) 15:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, AstrooKai and Borgenland!

Thank you for bringing attention of infobox of Biniverse concerts in the chronology. While I understand the intention of accurately reflect the official names of each performance, I believe listing all the subcategories (e.g, Biniverse Baguio, Biniverse Cebu etc.) might not align with the purpose of the chronology section.

Here is my explanation why is not align on chronology:

1. The purpose of the chronology in a concert infobox is to show distinct, standalone events, typically on a larger scale, such as tours or major milestones. Biniverse is already recognized as a significant concert brand or series. Including regional or specific edition (e.g Biniverse Baguio) may overcomplicate the chronology.

Instead, these can be detailed in the main article body under a section about the Biniverse tour.

2. Including all regional and special tours of Biniverse in the chronology can appear redundant because they are all part of the same larger event. The chronology is meant to give readers quick overview of distinct events in the artist or group career, not every iteration of a single concept.

3. On Wikipedia, concert chronologies typically summarize tours as a single entry, not listing every city or performance unless they are standalone tours or different productions. For example, Beyoncé's Reinassance World Tour is a listed as event, not broken down into city or unique performance using infobox. Similarly, Biniverse could represent the concert series as a whole with a major variations highlighted in the article text, not the chronology section.

4. By listing only key events of Biniverse as series name, readers can quickly understand the group concert history without overwhelmed by location specific details. These details are more suited for the main text or a dedicated table of tour dates, which can provide all necessary information about each performance.

I hope this my explanation could clarify in your question, if you have any questions just reply on this my message, thanks! Royiswariii Talk! 10:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for listing out your reasons. However, as you stated, to show distinct, standalone events, these shows, while part of the entire series, are still events distinct enough to be separated from the series in the chronology section. Additionally, the Grand Biniverse (GBV) is part of the entire Biniverse series, so listing Biniverse as the previous for the GBV concert may lead to confusion on whether GBV differs from the entire Biniverse.

For your second rationale, this wouldn't be redundant since you're only including the last event before the current one, you won't include them all. For your example, Beyoncé's Reinassance World Tour, it was listed that way because the last event (On the Run II Tour) is also an entire different tour. Plus, the article uses a tour infobox, so they would lists tours for chronology. In our case, the GBV uses a concert infobox, which lists concerts, not tours. Since I'm not aware of other policies and guidelines, I would need you to link one that supports the statement On Wikipedia, concert chronologies typically summarize tours as a single entry.

For the fourth rationale, as I previously pointed out, wouldn't be redundant and overwhelming for the readers since you're not putting them all, but only the one last event before the current one.

I hope this clears up your misunderstanding of my proposal. AstrooKai (Talk) 12:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your thoughts, to clarify, Biniverse and The Grand Biniverse are indeed part of the same concert series, but they are distinct events and shouldn't be treated as sub categories of Biniverse. While Biniverse referes to the broader concert series, including the regional and international editions. The Grand Biniverse represents a significant evolution or "level up" within that series.

The Grand Biniverse is not just a regional show but a larger scale, more extravagant production, often with a bigger venue and possibly enhanced elements in terms of set, production or concept. It's part of the Biniverse brand, but it offers a different experience and stands out as a major milestone within the series.

So, while both concerts fall under the same general series, The Grand Biniverse should be seen as a distinct event that elevates the Biniverse concept, rather than simply a continuation or subcategory of it.

For clarity in the chronology section, we can list Biniverse as the overarching concert series with the GBV highlighted separately to reflect its unique, elevated within the same series. Royiswariii Talk! 02:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I see there might still be some misunderstanding, so let me clarify my point. You listed "Grand Biniverse: The Valentine Repeat" as the next concert in the Grand Biniverse's infobox, but isn’t that also part of the entire Biniverse tour? In fact, the Grand Biniverse itself is part of the Biniverse tour.

Logically, the previous concert in the infobox should be "Biniverse Live in Canada", as that's the official name for the North American leg, which directly preceded the Grand Biniverse.

Listing "Biniverse" as the preceding concert is illogical because that name refers to the entire tour, not an individual concert like the Grand Biniverse or Grand Biniverse: The Valentine Repeat. AstrooKai (Talk) 19:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

To simple and to understand it's just like

Biniverse = Tour (Biniverse Baguuo, Biniverse Cebu and Biniverse Canada the subcategories)

The Grand Biniverse = Solo concert with a level up concert that was not a part of tour.

Grand Biniverse: The Valentine Repeat = it's just the same as the GBV. Royiswariii Talk! 00:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Just to make it clear on this reply of yours, you're implying that GBV is not part of the Biniverse tour, correct? AstrooKai (Talk) 06:27, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, because GBV is a solo concert and Biniverse is a Tour concert. But I bet need to Article split of Biniverse § Araneta Coliseum since it was a solo concert. Royiswariii Talk! 09:48, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

To be honest, I also consider GBV as a separate concert—not part of the first Biniverse tour. Though, other editors consider it as the culminating act of the tour, that's why it's in this article. AstrooKai (Talk) 11:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Clarification regarding succeeding concerts as part of the tour

Is the Grand Biniverse (GBV) and the Grand Biniverse: Valentine Repeat (GBV:VR) really part of the tour? There seems to be some confusion about whether these concerts are part of the tour, simply because they share the name "Biniverse." For context, the term "Biniverse" existed long before this tour, dating back to Bini's debut era. In 2021, the group posted an official teaser for their debut, which included a QR code that led to an image saying, "Are you ready for the BINIverse?"[2] The term "Biniverse" (a portmanteau of "Bini" and "universe") appears to refer to the broader space or "world" for Bini and their fans, rather than being directly tied to this specific tour.

It's unfortunate that there aren't any sources that explicitly confirm whether GBV and GBV:VR are different from the previous tour. However, Laurenti Dyogi (ABS-CBN's Head of Entertainment Production) posted a tweet on July 6, 2024, saying that GBV was a new show and different from the previous shows.[3] The problem is, it's unclear whether he meant "new show" as creatively new or grander, or if he was referring to GBV as a separate concert from the tour. I'm not confident that this alone is enough to support the idea that GBV and GBV:VR are not part of the tour. If we continue to add future concerts as part of the tour just because they bear the name "Biniverse" and no sources explicitly state that they are different, then Bini's entire concert timeline might end up being classified as a single ongoing tour.

My question is whether we should treat GBV and GBV:VR as separate events or part of the "Biniverse" tour, and if there are any sources that can clarify this. AstrooKai (Talk) 13:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

To my opinion, Grand Biniverse need to be as a standalone article, I believe that GBV is a way different on Biniverse because Biniverse is a Tour concert. Although, ABS-CBN announced that a solo concert of Bini which is Biniverse, but, they expanded into a Tour concert like in Canada. But the thing is, Grand Biniverse is a solo concert and the upcoming concert GBV:VR is a solo concert too, not a tour. Royiswariii Talk! 02:40, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

We can propose and discuss this using a article split so we can discuss even more with other editors. Royiswariii Talk! 02:43, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this. I really think GBV and the upcoming concert in the Philippine Arena are not really part of the initial Biniverse tour. Especially since the tour ended in Canada in July, while GBV happened in November.

As far as I know, there are no sources that say that GBV is part of the tour itself. But there are also no sources that can confirm that GBV is a stand-alone concert (separate from the tour). Some may consider GBV as the culmination of the tour because of the word "Grand" and the fact that it has "Biniverse" in its name, implying that it's the grandest show of the tour. But the management neither confirmed nor denied that GBV is part of the tour.

As for the split proposal, I prefer to wait for a consensus to be generated on this discussion about whether GBV and the upcoming concert is a separate concert from the tour. Sources are badly needed for this, but they just don't want to say whether the concert is part of the tour or not lol. AstrooKai (Talk) 03:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

AstrooKai

Update: I consult to my mentor CFA on this discussion:

• They said that there is no need to be explicitly distinct to merit separate article. Meaning, even if there is a overlap between Biniverse and Grand Biniverse , that overlap does not automatically disqualify the latter from having its own article.
• On WP:SPLITTING some advice that In some cases, refactoring an article into child or sister articles can allow subtopics to be discussed more fully elsewhere ... but only if the new articles are themselves sufficiently notable to be included in the encyclopedia. Which is the notability of the concert per WP:NCONCERT (Similarly on NCONCERT which is linked).
• One of a relevant guidlines is WP:PAGEDECIDE, the decision should always be based upon specific considerations about how to make the topic understandable, and not merely upon personal likes or dislikes.
• If the article was too lengthy or unsuitable on the context of Biniverse, it can be create a new separated article. Just to remember the notability of the article.

Question:

Q: How do reliable sources affect the decision to create a standalone article for Grand Biniverse?

A:WP:RELIABLE sources play a critical role in determining wether a topic like Grand Biniverse is notable enough for its own article. If sources such as news outlets or official statements consistently discuss Grand Biniverse as a distinct event (separate from the broader Biniverse tour), it strengthens the argument for a standalone article. For example, Laurenti Dyogi tweet clarifying that Grand Biniverse is a "new show" is an important piece of evidence, but more independent coverage would solidify its case for notability. We can cite that tweet for Lauren per WP:TWEET says: The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim. or to be specific on WP:EXCEPTIONAL says: Surprising or apparently important claims not covered by multiple mainstream sources. Royiswariii Talk! 03:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not proposing for a split yet. I'm just asking for clarification about whether GBV and GBV:VR are part of the Biniverse tour or not. AstrooKai (Talk) 05:21, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

To me, Grand Biniverse is not part of the Biniverse tour concert per Lauren Dyogi said on X. It should have a separate article on this. Royiswariii Talk! 09:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I am leaning towards a weak support, my only remaining inhibitions being the article size. Borgenland (talk) 13:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Strong support after reading this [4]. Borgenland (talk) 14:28, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to clarify that I'm seeking clarification regarding if GBV (Araneta) is part of this Biniverse tour not. This is not a proposal for a split of GBV to a new article (yet). Apologies if my initial post caused misunderstanding. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I am leaning towards regarding this as not given how it and the succeeding scheduled concerts are now labelled GBV. But then again, some may argue that the news article shows that Araneta may be the last leg of the solo B convert. Borgenland (talk) 15:03, 19 December 2024 (UTC)