Talk:Białystok Ghetto

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This article is the subject of a request emailed to the Volunteer Response Team (VRT).

Issues identified are: Verifying the authority of User:USHMMwestheim to appropriately sublicense content taken from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

The VRTS ticket number is https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketZoom&TicketID=989004&ArticleID=1222637&QueueID=58.

Copyvio

This article is not copyvio - the article's author is affiliated with the USHMM, from which the text is taken, and is deliberately giving the content to Wikipedia. We were notified of this vIa OTRS (ticket #2007071910012533) and it is all good. Please contact me with any problems. Phil Sandifer 19:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keegan (talk) 05:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:August 15-20 Bialystok Ghetto Liquidated.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:August 15-20 Bialystok Ghetto Liquidated.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 26 December 2011

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Recent edits

Preserving here by providing this link. My rationale was "c/e; wikilink; npov". --K.e.coffman (talk) 04:28, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've rectified a number of factual inaccuracies, pov issues, and content not conforming to cited sources. There are probably a number of outstanding issues remaining.Icewhiz (talk) 08:16, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: "Uncited intricate detail unlikely to be found in secondary RS". --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:27, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman: Uncited, yes. Unlikely to be found in RS? Hardly. Would you mind restoring this content? Here are the reliable refs: 1) Grynberg and Skalski rescue story, ref, YV [1] 2) Turek, Smolko: [2] . It does not mention Godzins, but they are mentioned here [3] and also here [4]. 3) Szyszkiewicz-Burda story [5] and [6] 4) Kaliszczuk [7], mentioned in Gutman Encyclopedia [8] [9] 5) Buszko [10] [11] . All it takes is a bit of digging. Information about Righteous and such is rarely a hoax. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:10, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My edit summary mentioned secondary RS; the sources above are mostly primary databases and self-published web sites: www.savingjews.org; db.yadvashem.org. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:08, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am unsure if they are secondary. A first hand account is primary, but when it is repeated by a scholar in a book, or online database which is the 21st century equivalent of one, it may well be seen as secondary. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:10, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I go by Wikipedia's definition; pls see: WP:SECONDARY. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman: So do I. And I find yadvashem pages like [12] to be very clearly secondary. Primary source are the original testimonies. The write up on the YV pages and like is "analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources" carried out by historians who publish those database pages. And even if you disagree that they are secondary, per the policy, "primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them... A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge." Since we are not offering our own analysis or such, just stating simple facts sich as Person Y aided and sheltered Person X, the primary / secondary source issue is irrelevant in either case. I will therefore ask you, kindly, to restore the content you removed, now that reliable sources have been provided here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:21, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I view YV’s “Rescue stories” as akin to commendations or medal citations. There’s no context and no byline. Secondary sources are needed to provide analysis and establish weight in re: “Rescue by Poles in X Ghetto”, to avoid straying into original research. A good secondary source for the Bialystok Ghetto would be Ordinary Jews by Evgeny Finkel (2017, Princeton University Press). The author devotes a chapter to the rescue and escape, using three ghettos – Krakow, Minsk, and Bialystok – as case studies. This would be a good place to start. (As an aside, there’s a lecture about the book on YouTube: [13]). --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:37, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a very good source, but it is unlikely to be comprehensive. It seems logical, to me, that for this article to be comprehensive it should mention all related individuals: notable victims and survivors, the war criminals, and rescuers, and if there are any issues with UNDUE weight, it i simply because this article is not comprehensive yet and is missing other content (I am sure much could be added using the USHMM source you linked in another discussion). As I noted, YV and such can be seen as secondary sources, and even if we were to conclude they are primary (with which at this point I do not concur), primary sources, per policies cited, can be used for statements of fact (but not for opinions, etc.). Since are not adding opinions/judgement, just statements of fact, what is the problem? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of Polish Righteous Among the Nations

The rescue content has been moved to the linked article. Please see Talk:List of Polish Righteous Among the Nations#Polish Righteous for rationale. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:52, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Racist website

pamiecitozsamosc.pl is run by the racist Lux Veritatis Foundation, I am removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crynot (talk • contribs) 18:10, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]