Talk:Bernie or Bust

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This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

no consensus, 28 November 2016, see discussion.
merge to Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, 2016, 1 August 2016, see discussion.

Introduction: Bernie or Bust was a leverage strategy used to help Senator Sanders win the nomination to the Democratic Party. The "leverage" stemmed from the organizers' voter pledge to not support and Democratic Party nominee besides it was Sanders. By early March of 2016, the organizers had obtained over 50,000 pledges to either write-in Bernie Sanders in the general election or vote for the candidate of the Green Party. In the aftermath of that election cycle, the two original organizers, @BernieOrBust and Patrick Walker, wrote a book that is part memoir, part democracy manifesto, part climate preservation strategy, part candidate evaluation exercise, part voter registration advice, part list of trustworthy media and revolution from cover to cover. The title is Bernie or Bust: Pioneers of Electoral Revolt.^[1] RAP Revolutionary (talk) 00:58, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please tell me who let this travesty of a sentence get into an article about a major candidate for the 2016 election. edit: My thanks to whoever deleted that sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1313:4258:AD1F:69D:2B8A:8E57 (talk) 06:34, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As the article creator, I am disappointed about how biased this article has become.--Proud User (talk) 12:32, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This Article Should Be Deleted

It has no relevance to anything relating to the 2016 presidential campaign and is clearly biased, favoring the movement itself. The movement is largely unpopulated and will cease to exist in a matter of months. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.199.241.145 (talk) 18:50, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It used to be very neutral. --Proud User (talk) 21:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What that not neurtal Pround U., thats literally obivous yet surrealistically real bias that clearly came from sterotypical view of Hillary supporter think about against mean of page or word itself, Put I like current state because it is real neutral now than page was created since once again its literally look-like native hillary supporter who never know what (Ex-)bernie supporters political emotion works. 2606:A000:85C0:E00:740C:3464:A831:2624 (talk) 23:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, not that it should be deleted, but that it should be merged either with the election article or with the person. TimothyJosephWood 20:17, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The person, @BernieOrBust, wishes to remain behind the scenes. He's promoting Bernie or Bust: Pioneers of Electoral Revolt, so he's not difficult to find.RAP Revolutionary (talk) 01:09, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This Page need be Expanded as Means to Be Real Neutral About Page

This page need be expanded by adding about 'supporting or opposition about movement' section since their celebrities (majority from Hillary camp) are strongly opposed as means somehow Trump winning, while they are few like Cornel West^[2]^[3]^[4], Jimmy Dore^[5], Ana Kasparian^[5] and several more actually supporting movement by feel according to them not being hypocrite. 2606:A000:85C0:E00:740C:3464:A831:2624 (talk) 00:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://bookstore.dorrancepublishing.com/bernie-or-bust/
^ "Cornel West endorses Green Party candidate Jill Stein". Retrieved 15 July 2016.
^ "JILL STEIN, CORNELL WEST VISIT ATLANTA TO PROMOTE GREEN PARTY BALLOT ACCESS IN GEORGIA". Retrieved 6 June 2016.
^ "Dr. Cornel West will join Dr. Stein for two events in downtown Atlanta". Retrieved 6 June 2016.
^ ^a ^b TYT Politics (June 8, 2016). "Jill Stein Wants Free College + Cancel ALL Student Debt". Youtube.

The organization behind the movement, Revolt Against Plutocracy, has decided to deploy an or bust strategy in 2020. Because there are several progressive Democrats running in the primaries, the strategy is currently called Progressive Or Bust. RAP is committed to seeing the Democrats lose the White House unless they nominate a progressive, so let the page stand and offer its media and celebrity critics ("you're being ridiculous") to provide their rationalizations of support for the candidate of corporate globalization.

Bernie or Bust, the book, is the only official history of the Bernie or bust movement. The common criticism Bernie or bust was a position of privilege is addressed and debunked by survey work done at the time.

Final results from PA are announced in Bernie or Bust. RAP Revolutionary (talk) 02:27, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Results of Bernie or bust are not yet determined

Research is under way to determine if write-in votes for Sanders plus Green Party votes (the two sanctioned "or bust" options) totaled more than the spread between Trump and Clinton vote counts in MI, WI, PA and FL. If Bernie or bust did turn the election for Trump, then the movement is historically significant; and this page should remain separate from the Bernie Sanders for President 2016 page. WI, for example, is a state Bernie or bust movement may well have helped Trump win. 30980 votes (Stein 2016) minus 7601 (Stein 2012) = 23379. The spread in WI this year was 27257. If Sanders got 4,000 write-in votes in WI, then Trump's WI success will have been due to the movement RAP started. Unfortunately, because he was not a write-in candidate, WI will not tabulate any of the write-in votes he received. The key state at this point is PA, and they don't certify their results until the week of Dec. 4th. They are also undertaking a recount.

We should know shortly after the write-in votes are tabulated in those four swing states, hopefully by mid December, 2016. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RAP Revolutionary (talk • contribs) 22:57, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vote count separation between Trump and Clinton in PA = 44,292 votes. Stein received 49941 votes, an increase of 28,600 over 2012 (the "or bust" effect). That means, for #BernieOrBust to have caused PA to go to Trump, Sanders needed 15,692 write-in votes. Bernie or bust will not be able to take full credit for Secretary Clinton's defeat. Revolt Against Plutocracy committee members have confirmed the write-in total — Preceding unsigned comment added by RAP Revolutionary (talk • contribs) 20:56, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?

This discussion seems to support that this page be merged into the main Bernie Sanders presidential run page? What do we think of merging this? -- Dane2007 ^talk 01:39, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Revolt Against Plutocracy, the organization that organized the Bernie or bust movement, needs to get the results of the write-in vote in PA. If 39,636 voters, 0.68% of all PA voters in 2016, wrote in Sanders, then Bernie or bust was a significant factor in the defeat of Secretary Clinton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RAP Revolutionary (talk • contribs) 02:58, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comment: Merge Article?

The consensus is that Bernie or Bust should be merged into the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, 2016 page. Tazerdadog (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should Bernie or Bust be merged into the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, 2016 page? -- Dane ^talk 05:35, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Votes

Support This doesn’t really warrant it’s own page. It would fit well as a section in his presidential campaign wiki article. The Happy Warrior (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support: this might make a good section in the article, but I'm not sure if it would make for a good standalone article. Summoned by bot. Prcc27❄ (talk) 20:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

*Support: If we could show Bernie or bust could take credit for helping defeat Clinton, this would be a worthwhile page to stand alone and elaborate on; but we, the Bernie or bust organizers, cannot prove that. Bernie or Bust, the book, will be coming out next year for people to learn about this movement in detail a Wikipedia page cannot provide. Merge it back into the Sanders for President page. RAP Revolutionary (talk) 11:47, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@RAP Revolutionary: Please only put one !vote in each RfC. I have struck your earliest !vote assuming you would like your newest is your current position. Thanks. -- Dane ^talk 02:30, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge basically part of the campaign, and better covered in that article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:20, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge and cutting down. Most of the sources come from the week of / prior to the convention; there's no indication this was a real, lasting movement. Instaurare (talk) 06:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support This doesn't need it's own article, and should be merged into a section of the presidential campaign article. _{Adotchar| reply here} 06:21, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Summoned by bot. Agree that the sources point to it being a moment in the campaign. Merging will make the campaign article stronger as well. Chris vLS (talk) 18:27, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Bernie or bust was a pioneering effort that will be duplicated until a progressive is in the White House. This page serves as the strategy's first strike.RAP Revolutionary (talk) 23:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support The bot sent me. This was really part of the campaign. Maybe when the book of the same title comes out next year, it could be moved there, but for now I think the campaign article. SW3 5DL (talk) 05:16, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The use of leverage was pioneering, and its use continues in the 2020 election cycle as #ProgressiveOrBust because Senator Sanders is not the only progressive in the contest, and Bernie or Bust was not a cult of personality as sometimes accused.RAP Revolutionary (talk) 01:01, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Write-in votes were tallied week of Dec. 19th, but the unofficial total of just under 6,000 votes for Sanders means that Bernie or bust organizers will NOT be able to take full credit to helping defeat Secretary Clinton (or get blamed for Trump's victory). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RAP Revolutionary (talk • contribs) 20:59, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] ttp://bookstore.dorrancepublishing.com/bernie-or-bust/

[2] "Cornel West endorses Green Party candidate Jill Stein". Retrieved 15 July 2016.

[3] "JILL STEIN, CORNELL WEST VISIT ATLANTA TO PROMOTE GREEN PARTY BALLOT ACCESS IN GEORGIA". Retrieved 6 June 2016.

[4] "Dr. Cornel West will join Dr. Stein for two events in downtown Atlanta". Retrieved 6 June 2016.

[Jill_Stein_Wants_Free_College-5] TYT Politics (June 8, 2016). "Jill Stein Wants Free College + Cancel ALL Student Debt". Youtube.

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