Talk:Aubrey Plaza

Aubrey Plaza has never come out as queer or bisexual

Aubrey Plaza said in 2016, when asked about her queer fanbase, "Girls are into me — that’s no secret. Hey, I’m into them too. I fall in love with girls and guys. I can’t help it." She also said, "It was less about pretending to be a lesbian and more about portraying a human being with a massive crush on Natasha Lyonne’s character. Natasha’s a friend, and she called me up, like, ‘Do you want to come do a movie and make out with me?’ I have a major crush on her in real life, so it was fun."

That could mean that she's attracted to women. But it's also how a lot of straight woman talk about "girl crushes" and "falling in love with" their friends. And it's the only time she's ever mentioned anything about it, the one time in 2016. And she certainly didn't use the label "bisexual".

Bi erasure is a big and real issue. I'm bi and non-binary I find it infuriating when a celebrity has talked extensively about being queer, but media and fans downplay or ignore it. Plaza has not talked extensively about her sexuality, she made a few ambiguous comments in 2016 and never brought it up again. I'm not a veteran Wikipedia editor, so I'm not gonna make an authoritative statement on whether those comments are worth mentioning on her page. But if they're mentioned, they need to be mentioned honestly--quote her directly, don't rephrase to add more explicit language (a previous edit said she was "attracted to girls and guys") and don't add labels she's never used. That's not queer allyship or advocacy, that's RPF. 2601:4C0:8000:3420:C512:C8EE:1148:5BA3 (talk) 03:01, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi IP, I'm directly replying so you might see this as your IP range can't be tagged. I'm replying with a pretty lengthy explanation of how sources and coverage about such things are handled in my experience, because I'm pretty active in WikiLovePride and this is an important topic. Let's start by saying, I'm sure you're aware there are attempts at queer erasure on Wikipedia under various guises so I am glad you share the view that it is important visibility to mention these things when they are covered in sources.

And that's what addressing your comment has to be about: sources. Wikipedia does not make judgements and then write about them. A lot of your comment is what we would probably describe as a form of WP:Original research. That is, you give your personal perspectives that if someone has not talked extensively about her sexuality then it's not that important, and that Plaza's words specifically sound to you like how a lot of straight woman talk about "girl crushes" and "falling in love with" their friends. Personally IMHO, since Plaza said "fall[ing] in love with girls and guys", mentioning girls and guys together, it doesn't read to me as a love-your-friends kind of thing, and it would be weird to mean different kinds of love for things said together in context. Your opinion is not a WP:Reliable source, unfortunately.

So then we have the other concerns you mention: that it was only ambiguously mentioned once in 2016, and that the wording used in WP:Wikivoice is imprecise. The first concern can be easily addressed by noting that something does not need to be repeated to remain true. Now, for wording, let's look at the sources!

The 2016 interview you refer to was with The Advocate. Now reading it all, I do think your representation of the quote about Lyonne is also a bit misleading about context (i.e. it's not about Plaza, it's a separate question where she was asked "how did you approach [playing a lesbian]"); your conflation is unhelpful because it's possible and valid for bisexual women to have platonic girl crushes as other women do, too. Onto the relevant quote; Plaza mentions how she/her character was coming on to a female character in a different film, and is then asked if women come on to her (not asked about her queer fanbase). Her response in full: "Oh, yeah. I don't mind. I know I have an androgynous thing going on, and there's something masculine about my energy. Girls are into me -- that's no secret. Hey, I'm into them too. I fall in love with girls and guys. I can't help it."

If Wikipedia was using just this source for Plaza's identity, we would have to just quote it wholesale without any labels, as a first-hand source without labels. But, WP isn't using the interview as a source: at the moment, it cites "Plaza is bisexual" to a Time article that recaps the interview; I do agree the sentence is currently wrong, as the Time source does not use the word bisexual, either. Let's search to see, do other sources say Plaza is bisexual?

Overwhelmingly yes. The first time the term is used is the day after that interview, the most recent time is... yesterday, because apparently it's relevant in news about her husband's death (it isn't, but I suppose renewed coverage is why (courtesy ping) @TJMSmith: added it to the article on Saturday?). It's also interesting to see that referring to the Advocate interview is how Stephanie Beatriz came out as bisexual;(Advocate) (Bustle) it seems to have gone down as Plaza choosing a low-key way of coming out(BUST) (LGBTQ+ Nation) and the label immediately accepted as fact - enough that Beatriz could point to the interview and people knew what she was doing, and enough for the majority of other sources to use it as their reference for referring to Plaza as bi, or including Plaza in lists of queer actors. Wikipedia, using any of these sources, can (per WP:V) say "Plaza is bisexual". Now, IP, I suppose one could argue that this is deferring the matter of someone interpreting Plaza's words, but between the ability to reference it as some Latina bisexual canon event and what we're going to address below, that argument becomes quite weak. Long reply short: if we replace the Time source with one that uses the term "bisexual", it looks perfectly safe to me. That is, while you, IP, have read Plaza's original statement and taken it one way, other people have read and taken it a different way, and your take is not the one represented in reliable sources, which is what Wikipedia uses.

The summary of 'addressed below' is that while the majority of sources (and people) seem to accept the 2016 interview as a casual coming out that Plaza didn't need to mention again, it has in fact been brought up since, and Plaza has accepted the label.

Now IP, you imply that it's being within the queer community that means you really understand how and why inaccurate labels can be harmful, and to properly address your personal concerns is one reason I wanted to do more of a deep dive into sources, rather than just point out that the majority say "bisexual" so WP can too. In that Advocate interview, Plaza talks about her lesbian sister and gay best friend, and so (in a similar way) one would assume that someone in Plaza's position wouldn't let an inaccurate label be applied to them for years without addressing it, either.

That made me look for other interviews where she would have the opportunity to address being labelled as bi (rather than just articles about her written without her involvement). In this 2021 video, Plaza answers questions about dating. One of them (1:10, linked) asks Plaza at what point to tell a partner about being bisexual; this is asked with a sort of presumption that Plaza's sexuality is already known, so being bisexual isn't itself the subject of the question, but talking about it is: there would still be the opportunity to either not answer or say it's not her place to answer. Instead she says her "personal preference" is mentioning right away. Given the direct connection, I think we can say this video has Plaza actively claiming the bisexual label presented to her. One of the outrage articles from yesterday also led me to a 2022 interview about her marriage, with Plaza told that "people in the bisexual community felt like they were mourning the loss of [her]" when she got married. Again stated as if her sexuality is common knowledge, Plaza's acknowledgement of it is to say that "People project so much stuff onto marriage, but it wasn’t some big statement I’m trying to make where I want everybody to react to it." This is not as direct, it would be more Plaza passively claiming the bisexual label, by accepting it being used without comment. Now FWIW, it would require personal interpretation to say her response is insinuating that she wasn't trying to distance herself from her sexuality or the queer community by marrying someone of the opposite sex, so while that's what it reads as, WP couldn't say so unless a different source did.

My further searching has also found an Autostraddle report back in 2016 saying the Advocate interview wasn't the first time Plaza mentioned her sexuality, that she had referenced past relationship(s) with women a week before on Watch What Happens Live! – so really it looks like summer 2016 is a point in time she wanted to get the information out there.

I noted above that something doesn't need to be repeatedly addressed to stay true, but I hope that Plaza being nonchalantly presented with the label and accepting it, in more recent years, assuages this concern for you. Kingsif (talk) 00:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Language tone

It sounds less encyclopedic and more like the backside print of a pr photo 83.251.138.95 (talk) 20:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)