Talk:Arab–Israeli conflict/Archive 11

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Archive 11

Religion

Is religion the cause of this ancient conflict? Jeremy Lansman (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Not really, while Israel was created to be the homage of Jewish people, the tensions of Israel and Arab states is because the way that Israel was created, as Palestinians believe that Israel is an apartheid and treats them like second-class citizens. ZetaFive (talk) 22:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• homeland, not homage. Sorry.

ZetaFive (talk) 22:43, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

"A majority of 53% believes the Palestinian-Israeli conflict remains national, over land and sovereignty and 45% believe it has become a religious conflict" https://pcpsr.org/en/node/912 (June opinion poll) Selfstudier (talk) 10:46, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

"Arab-Israeli War" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Arab-Israeli War and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 10#Arab-Israeli War until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:41, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

"Arab–Israeli War" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Arab–Israeli War and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 10#Arab–Israeli War until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

"Fifty years war" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Fifty years war and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 10#Fifty years war until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-Confirmed-Protected Edit Request

Could somebody please replace "Arab countries" in the first line with "various Arab countries"? Some Arab countries are not involved in the conflict, while others are. Praxeria (talk) 05:44, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Can Great Britain be added to the list of belligerents, as supporters on the Arab side during the 1948-49 war?

Can Great Britain be added to the list of belligerents, as supporters on the Arab side during the 1948-49 war?

Britain conducted aerial operations against the Israelis. They also actively prevented them from entering the Sinai and encircling the Egyptian expeditionary forces, by threatening invasion, thus putting the Israelis at a disadvantage, arguably resulting in Egypt being able to hold on to parts of Palestine until the armistice.

Britain also explicitly supported, and recognised the Arab (Jordanian) conquest and annexation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and was the only nation in the UN to do so. Aligning with the Arab world in general, was also a stated interest of Britain at the time, I believe.

Whether this looks good or bad for the UK in retrospect, is a matter of perspective I suppose. They do deserve the recognition though. DJHellduck (talk) 17:23, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Having regard to our own article 1948 Palestine war there were occasions when the British intervened, or threatened to, on the 'Arab'* side but these seem to have been part of an effort to stabilise the situation during their withdrawal and to 'enforce' international agreements.

They were there under a mandate for the creation of the Jewish State and seemed to be trying to hold the ring in a very complex situation while trying to extricate themselves..

If we were to include some good sourcing would be required. Lukewarmbeer (talk) 16:48, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 December 2022

can yemen go as a belligerent under arab league, as they fought in the 1948 israel war? Laithhh (talk) 21:00, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:24, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 14:53, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

That is factually wrong, so no @Laithhh Starship 24 (talk) 20:38, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

The role of ISIS, Al-Qaeda and other Arab terrorists

Are terrorist groups such as ISIS and al-Qaeda (which are led by Arabs and have many Arab fighters) among the participants in the Arab-Israeli conflict? Can the terrorist attacks of these groups and other Arab terrorists be written as part of the conflict between Arabs and Israel (either in this article or in other articles)? Parham wiki (talk) 16:24, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

No, and please see WP:NOTFORUM. nableezy - 16:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 July 2023

Belligerents Iran (Iran-Iraq War) should be removed from the list of countries that supported Israel at the time of Iran-Iraq War, as both parties (Iran and Iraq) were hostile towards Israel. Also under countries like the United Kingdom and France Suez Crisis should be mentioned (1956 Suez Crisis). 46.251.201.89 (talk) 08:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: See Israel's role in the Iran–Iraq War. Suez Crisis is also mentioned (without the year of its occurrence, we do not have an article called, for example, 1985 Suez Crisis on Wikipedia). Parham wiki (talk) 10:37, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Civilian casualties

Sould we included a part in the infobox for total civilian casualties? The infobox only says 1000 civilians dead, is that true? You think conflict like this would have 100s of 1000 of civilian casualties LuxembourgLover (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 October 2023

This article says that the conflict became part of the Cold War due to the Suez Crisis. But as you can see here, Soviet Union is one of the belligerents of 1952 Egyptian Revolution. So, the period can be written as 1952-1991. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.180.58.176 (talk) 19:42, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done there was no Egyptian-Israeli engagement in 1952 (not until 1956), so Soviet role can't be considered active supporter during this year.GreyShark (dibra) 08:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Notable wars and violent events

I think the current October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict should be added due to its severity into this list on this article. Onion1981 (talk) 22:00, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done - part of the Iranian conflict vs Israel via its local proxies like Hamas. Arab countries do not have any active role in the fighting to date, including Palestine itself (internationally recognized Palestinian government in Ramallah remains neutral).GreyShark (dibra) 08:44, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Iran–Iraq War

Israel gave extensive support to Iran in the Iran-Iraq War and even bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor with the cooperation of Iran during Operation Opera. Iran (Iran-Iraq War) should be added to the belligerent list such as the United Kingdom, France, the South Lebanese Army and the Lebanese Army. Parham wiki (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Israeli operation vs Iraqi reactor was not directly supporting the Iranian side in the Iran-Iraq War, but rather had its own interest.GreyShark (dibra) 08:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Role of Soviet Union

I'm undecided whether it is correct to put Soviet Union as belligerent or as supporter in the infobox. I do tend to see USSR's role as supporter and hence changed its status in the infobox, despite the actual involvement of Soviet fighter pilots in engagements against Israeli Air Force. The reason is that through most of the conflict, USSR was mostly providing weaponry and military advisors to Arab countries, while actual involvement of Soviet pilots was limited and not a public announcement of war. This is more or less the parallel supporting role of the US on the Israeli side, albeit somewhat more aggressive. Any other opinions?GreyShark (dibra) 08:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The Soviet position in the infobox is similar to its position in the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Parham wiki (talk) 08:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Rapproachment

There is a glaring typo in the info box. The intended word is "rapprochement," not "approachment," which, as far as I can tell, is not actually a word. Rapproachment is a French word for the resumption or establishment of harmonious relations, which I believe is the intended meaning since it makes perfect sense in context. Someone please fix this. Thank you. 98.150.137.168 (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

done. Thanks --Tomatoswoop (talk) 18:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Soviet support for Israel

The Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia were the main supporters of Israel in the 1948 war, I think this should be included in the infobox. - 2804:29B8:5183:100C:AD79:FE68:AB5F:C62B (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request, 24 December 2023

The USSR and Czechoslovakia both supported Israel in the 1948 war, this should be included in the infobox. -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:9C4C:B739:41FB:4065 (talk) 03:09, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide reliable sources for your request.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Czechoslovakia sold weapons to Israel during the 1948 war, they were decisive in the Israeli victory:

https://www.jpost.com/international/the-czech-arms-that-saved-israel-650710

https://www.meforum.org/7263/the-birth-of-israel-prague-crucial-role

Czechoslovakia was a Soviet puppet state during the war, the USSR was also the first country to recognize Israel. -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:BC6C:3AF2:62CF:834E (talk) 21:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: The USSR did not directly support Israel. Skitash (talk) 21:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

OK, but then the Netherlands, Greece and Portugal shouldn't be included either, since they did not directly support Israel in 1973. Also, Greece didn't allow the U.S. to use it's bases to supply Israel. 2804:29B8:5183:100C:CD4F:7E14:3266:6E2D (talk) 00:01, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request, 26 December 2023

Greece didn't allow the U.S. to use it's bases to support Israel in 1973, they should be removed from the infobox. -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:3C27:733A:25CD:79B1 (talk) 19:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: It has a reliable source. If you can explain how it contradicts the source, then it will be removed. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 20:22, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

"During the 1973 Yom Kippur war, the U.S. arms airlift to Israel was seriously complicated by the denial of transit bases in Spain, Turkey, and Greece and overflight rights in other NATO areas."

[1] 2804:29B8:5183:100C:481A:1F5E:E815:9A9C (talk) 20:47, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Skitash (talk) 22:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Here's another source on the subject:

"On October 22, 1973, MAC changed the route to fly south of Crete, to comply with a request from the Greek Government...... This zigzagging route was used because the United States could not obtain diplomatic clearance to use bases, which MAC usually used, in the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey."

[2] 2804:29B8:5183:100C:D53F:C849:883:9F0 (talk) 06:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request, 30 December 2023

Greece should be removed from the infobox, since it didn't let the U.S. use its bases to support the airlift in 1973.

"During the 1973 Yom Kippur war, the U.S. arms airlift to Israel was seriously complicated by the denial of transit bases in Spain, Turkey, and Greece and overflight rights in other NATO areas."

[3]

"On October 22, 1973, MAC changed the route to fly south of Crete, to comply with a request from the Greek Government...... This zigzagging route was used because the United States could not obtain diplomatic clearance to use bases, which MAC usually used, in the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey."

[4]

"Secondly, during the October 1973 War, Greece observed strict neutrality and refused land, air or port facilities for the airlift of American supplies to Israel. As the Greek Foreign Minister flatly stated, U.S. bases in Greece had "nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli war'."

[5] -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:85AA:25EF:674D:9F6D (talk) 21:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Skitash (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done I checked the source given in the infobox and found that it also emphasises Greek neutrality in 1973. So there is no case for keeping it. I'll also take the opportunity to complain in general about the "Supported by" sections of these infoboxes, which often list countries whose contribution was trivial. "Portugal" should be checked too. Zero^talk 04:06, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Map needs Yemen

Map needs Ansar Allah in Yemen. Irtapil (talk) 23:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Greece

Greece did not support Israel in the 1973 war, it declared neutrality and didn't allow the U.S. to use its bases for the airlift, it should be removed from the infobox. -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:D1BA:C8A:C094:DF5B (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source for this?GrayStorm^{(Talk|Contributions)} 02:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)