Talk:Anna Thompson Dodge

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Date of Birth

The article indicates she was born in 1871, but the New York Times article cited in Footnote #1 states that she died in 1970 at the age of 103, which would place her birth in 1867. I lived in the Detroit area at the time of her death, and I can confirm that, according to news reports, Mrs. Dodge was 103 at the time of her death. I would change the year of birth to 1867, but I am not sure the date is correct, so I will just make this comment and hope someone can find an appropriate source.John Paul Parks (talk) 17:08, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But if the birthday of August 7 is correct and also that she was 103 at the time of her death on June 2, 1970, that means she was born in 1866, not 1867. Rontrigger (talk) 02:47, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Several sources, including linked finadagrave.com, name her Anna Thomson Dodge.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 17:01, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What sources? Find a Grave is a user-generated site and is not a reliable source. Meters (talk) 03:08, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:WC Fifteen has listed

1 is the user-generated Find-a -Grave site, and hence not a reliable source.

2 is an article about the provenance of one of her necklace. It uses the "Thomson" spelling, but there's no telling where they got that spelling, and I doubt they cared either way.

3 is a blog but appears to be a copy of an entry in an architecture book or article. Unfortunately there is no information as to the original source so we can't judge how reliable it.

4 is a page by the Grosse Pointe Historical Society that has images of news clippings that use the "Thomson" spelling. We can't tell what publications the clippings are from. but clearly that spelling was in use by at least some media sources.

However, we also have media outlets that used the "Thompson" spelling, including her obit in the New York Times. It's also possible she used both spellings at different times in her life. If someone can dig up a birth, marriage or death record I'd be happy to go with that. Meters (talk) 04:31, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

She never used the name Thompson. "Thomson" almost sounds like "Thompson" this is why it has been incorrectly listed. Findagrave is reliable because several sources are listed and have been checked. The author has had contact with a family member in the past. I have had access to Wayne County Probate and real estate listings as well. You can check the Detroit Free Press as well. The crypt in the Mausoleum is engraved "1871". Meters has never seen it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WC Fifteen (talk • contribs) 04:38, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, I have not seen it. That's not the point. You have not provided us with reliable sources for your proposed change in name. If you have solid sources then cite the reliable sources and there won't be a problem. They don't have to be available online as long as they can be verified.

Speaking with a family member is WP:Original Research and is not acceptable.

It does not matter how good the sources Find-s-Grave uses. We cannot cite Find-a-Grave as a source. If we verify the sources that Find-a=Grave uses then we can use those sources directly, but Find-a-Grave itself if not a reliable source. It is user-generated and hence not a reliable source. as I have repeatedly told you.

Please list your sources here and wait for confirmation that they are acceptable before changing the article. Too many of the sources you have attempted to use already are questionable or simply not acceptable.

Assuming the name change is supported we will have to rename this article.Meters (talk) 04:55, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can see book sources using both spellings, "Thompson" and "Thomson". Even Wikipedia uses both, in different articles, probably reflecting whatever the sourcing used. This 2005 book on the Dodge Brothers [1] says her surname was Thompson and she dropped the "P", though no explanation for why she would do that is given. I don't have a proposed solution yet, just noting there can be an honest debate.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 05:28, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good hit. That looks like a reliable source. Thank you. With that information I found other sources for what spelling she was using.

Her original marriage record: #003569 Windsor, Essex Co, Ontario. Horace E Dodge, Methodist, bachelor, machinist,of Detroit (23 born Niles, MI) and Christina A Thompson, Presbyterian, spinster of Detroit (24 born Dundee, Scotland) married July 29, 1896 in Windsor. Groom's parents listed as: David Dodge and Maria Casts[? difficult to read]. Bride's parents listed as: William Thompson and Elizabeth Stevenson.
Passport application April 20, 1921 (#26402 issued April 27, 1921) for Anna Thomson Dodge, this spelling used both in her signature and the typewritten entries.
Passenger record July 13 1923 Southhampton to New York as Anna Thompson Dodge. These records were filled out by the shipping line so I would not use this as a reliable source that she had reverted to using the original spelling.
On 2nd marriage 1926 to Hugh Dillman she is listed as "Thomson"

These records show the spelling she was using rather than those used by media sources. It seems the reference you found is accurate when it says she dropped the "p" from her name. I'm not sure which spelling should appear as the main article title. Probably the no-p version per WP:COMMONNAME since that seems to be what she used for most of her life. I suggest moving the article, leaving a redirect under the original spelling, and adding to the article that she went by both spellings at different times.

Not sure what you mean by "an honest debate." Are you suggesting that one of isn't trying for an honest debate? Meters (talk) 19:04, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't mean anything bad by "honest debate", just that apparently this is a legitimate issue for debate. I'll take a look at these sources (I have an ancestry.com subscription at the moment) and other sources from during her life if any. BTW, "Anna Thompson Dodge" get 1,960 Google hits; "Anna Thomson Dodge" gets 1,660. Surely someone has discussed this issue somewhere in print before! I am also intrigued to know why she would have dropped the "p" -- some form of distancing from her family, just an error of spelling (more common in prior centuries), etc.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 21:21, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry is where I found those refs. There's a suspicious hit for a Thompson family in Essex County on the 1891 Canadian census, but the parents' names are wrong. Maybe an uncle, which might explain why she married in Essex Co even though she and the groom were both living in Detroit. I no longer have access to Scotland's People or I would have looked for her birth record. Meters (talk) 21:30, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]