Talk:Andhras

Andhras in Kurukshetra war

The article incorrectly states:

On the side of the Pandavas Mbh 8.12 Decked with ornaments, possessed of red teeth, endued with the prowess of infuriate elephants, attired in robes of diverse colours, smeared with powdered scents, armed with swords and nooses, capable of restraining mighty elephants, companions in death, and never deserting one another, equipped with quivers, bearing bows adorned with long locks, and agreeable in speech were the combatants of the infantry files led by Satyaki, belonging to the Talavana (Telinga kingdom) tribe, endued with fierce forms and great energy. (The Pandyas, Cholas, Keralas and Dravidas followed Dhrishtadyumna, Sikhandin, Chekitana and the sons of Draupadi.)

The actual Vyasa Mahabharata states:

Decked with ornaments, possessed of red teeth, endued with the prowess of infuriate elephants, attired in robes of diverse colours, smeared with powdered scents, armed with swords and nooses, capable of restraining mighty elephants, companions in death, and never deserting one another, equipped with quivers, bearing bows adorned with long locks, and agreeable in speech were the combatants of the infantry files led by Satyaki, belonging to the Andhra tribe, endued with fierce forms and great energy. Other brave warriors such as the Cedis, the Pancalas, the Kaikayas, the Karushas, the Kosalas, the Kanchis, and the Maghadhas,......

The article needs correction as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpannala (talk • contribs) 03:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Should the page be renamed?

Currently, the page holds the title "Andhra in Indian epic literature", but this doesn't justify the inclusion of information about Andhras from a historical perspective. Perhaps, renaming the page as "Andhras" would be more appropriate, as it encompasses both the historical and literary aspects of the Andhra people. Any other suggestions, please be free to add. Swarleystinson88 (talk) 14:42, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Also "Andhra (Tribe)" would be appropriate. Swarleystinson88 (talk) 15:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk it out?

@PadFoot2008 and Ancient seekr: You've been going back and forth on edits for the past month. Maybe try WP:BRD and discuss it here? Snowman304|talk 02:03, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 You keeps reverting the article back to a version that has misleading information that has no proper sources. I have cited Martin Haug's version of Aitareya brahman which is one of the earliest translation of the scripture. It clearly states the tale of Vishwamitra and the story of his sons - the andhras, pulindas etc are referred to as dasyus in the scripture. For the sake of reverting or POV pushing, you have entirely reverted necessary information and historical data from Arrian's Indica that clearly stated where Andhras were historically located. What is the point of reverting citied information from The Ramayana, Mahabharata and Puranas? The version of the article you keep reverting to is poorly structured, lack proper sources and shows bias. You could use "citation needed" template if you find information that needs a proper source instead of reverting on baseless accusations. Ancient seekr (talk) 03:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Ancient seekr, I think there might be a misunderstanding (likely, on my part) which can be easily cleared. Can you provide the source with a quotation here that mentions the Andhras as non-Aryans (Dasyus)? PadFoot (talk) 07:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @PadFoot2008, I have already cited Bhandarkar, D.R. work "Lectures on the Ancient History of India on the period from 650 to 325 B.C" regarding dasyus ,and I would also please refer to Gopalachari. K. work "Early History Of The Andhra Country", for Aitareya brahman. Arthur Berriedale Keith, "Aitareya and Kausitaki Brahmanas of the Rigveda", provides further insights. If you had concerns about the section on Dasyus, you could have edited it or added a "citation needed" template instead of reverting the entire structured edit. I am open to suggestions and collaboration on improving the page. Ancient seekr (talk) 09:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ancient seekr, the sources you provided have mostly convinced me, but could you provide newer sources? Your sources are from 1919 and 1922. PadFoot (talk) 10:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ancient seekr, never mind, I've found a recent source myself, I'm restoring your additions. PadFoot (talk) 10:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Most of the recent studies I have found have cited Bhandarkar, D.R's work. I see you have edited out Satavanhana. The Satavahanas, are very much linked to the Andhra tribe, are identified as Andhras in early historical records and the Puranas. Even Ashoka’s rock edicts and Indica refer to them as Andhras. The terms “Andhra-bhṛtyas” and “Andhra-jatiyas” also links them to the Andhra tribe. If you have any other take on it, I'm open to discussing them. Ancient seekr (talk) 11:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Even the modern day population is called Andhra, but we can't put them here, of course. Though referred to as Andhras in some sources, it is not necessary that the Satavahanas belonged to the tribe of the same name; the name Andhra can have multiple implications. Their origin is heavily contested, as far as I am aware. PadFoot (talk) 13:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

You are correct that their original homeland is a subject of debate. While modern Andhras are primarily identified by their region, the Satavahana's connection to the Andhra tribe is rooted in their lineage and ethnicity. The term AndhraJatiya clearly indicates their ethnic identity, not just their geographical location. Andhras are said to be a separate race by Megasthenes. Scholarly discussions are on the Satavahana's homeland, with various theories proposed but even those advocating for a western origin do not dispute their Andhra ethnicity, as far as I know. Historical sources, including Ashoka's rock edicts and Indica, referred to the Satavahanas as Andhras. The chronology of Andhra (Satavahana) kings comes from Puranas, and the Puranas consistently refer to the Satavahanas as Andhra. We're not discussing their relationship to the region but their link to the Andhra tribe. Ancient seekr (talk) 05:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 I am open to discussing your perspective on this topic. If you have any alternative information or sources, please feel free to share them. Ancient seekr (talk) 08:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, thank you @Snowman304, for inviting me to discuss. This allowed me to correct my mistake. PadFoot (talk) 10:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC)