Talk:3D Realms/Archive 1

Archive 1

ScubaVenture

I removed this as it's not an Apogee game. George Broussard did write the game while in the employ of Apogee, but it was never intended to be an Apogee title. It was written and published by Softdisk. The reason for this was that they'd let id Software out of their contract with them so they could do games for Apogee instead.

I should know, I work here at Apogee - this is Joe Siegler, webmaster for the company.  :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dopefish (talk • contribs) 9 February 2006.

Grammer

Sorry Teklund for my wording, i'm dyslexic and tend to write very convolutedly, however I did include new information with my contribution such as;

• Emphaisisng Apogee's role in the wide spread adoption of Shareware.
• The small list of large publishers that quickly adopted the model and for the most part utitlised the same BBS.
• Inclusion of Software Creations BBS, a staple of Apogee for many years, and the primary method of distrubution used by many people in the day (before Shareware CD's).
• I also wanted to remove the term "Spin-off" when describing Apogees two subsidiaries, 3D Realmas and Pinball Wizard.... it was rather unencyclopedic.
• Include an introduction that says immediately what they are known for popularising Shareware, Wolf3D, Keen, Nukem and a quick note they operate as 3D Realms.

Now I have spent about 2 hours going over my new new alterations to make it seem less convoluted. Your welcome to revert my alterations as long as you include the above 5 points yourself. Oh btw, as for my headings, Shareware and Background, you can remove them if you want.. I just felt that their was two logical sections that may at a later date be expanded. But, by all means remove them, just keep the facts.

Thanks, im flexible though, if you dont like any/all of my 5 points we can discuss it :). - UnlimitedAccess 9 July 2005 15:20 (UTC)

Sorry for being ignorant. The article is much clearer now with the addition of headings and a better introduction, and I agree with all five of your points above. I did remove id Software from the list of shareware distibutors similar to Apogee since as far as I know they distributed most of their games via Apogee... but I don't know much about that, so I might as well be wrong. So if I'm wrong, you may want to put that back in. Teklund 9 July 2005 18:10 (UTC)

Nice work their! About the id/Apogee thing their earlier stuff like Wolf3D was released as an Apogee title, but their later titles like Doom were released under the id software name.. I will stick it back in, and see how it goes. Thanks again. - UnlimitedAccess 9 July 2005 18:19 (UTC)

Quiz games

Are The Computer Quiz, The Astronomy Quiz and The IBM BASIC Quiz also Apogee games? Or are those Softdisk games / Scott Miller games? 81.70.123.72 11:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

MobyGames says they are all Softdisk games. ^[1][2][3] — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Mobygames is wrong. What a shock. Star Trek Trivia was an Apogee game. Star Trek: TNG Trivia was originally a Micro/FX game (George's company before Apogee), and when he joined Apogee, it became an Apogee game, and then Paramount stepped in and stopped both. Dopefish 16:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC) (Joe Siegler, Apogee/3DR).

I'm talking about The Computer Quiz, The Astronomy Quiz and the IBM BASIC Quiz, not the Star Trek trivia games. 81.70.123.72 10:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, as I said, MobyGames, the best reference I have, say they are all SoftDisk games. If it is wrong, so be it. You can also try Home of the Underdogs if you like. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm a doofus. You did say the pre-Apogee stuff. Dopefish 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)  :)

Vandals

Bleh, sorry for the vandalism earlier. I'm kind of the caretaker of the dorm IP address and some people think it's funny to edit entries for fun and get everyone banned from contributing. Shadowrun 05:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge Apogee Software into this page

Why do we need two different pages for the same company just because they changed their name? The Apogee Software page should be merged into this one as soon as possible. -- Grandpafootsoldier 02:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Fully agreed. The current state is very confusing. --seifip 14:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, merged. Sega381 16:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the merge but it is a little more compelx because Apogee Software is the parent company which owns the labels, Pinball Wizard, 3D Realms and perhaps others. 3D Realms just became the dominant label and all others fell away including the parent company's brand Appogee. - UnlimitedAccess 22:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I've been thinking about it, and though the merge is ok, probably the article should be called Apogee Software, as it is the real company name still, even though it may be known by other names...Sega381 00:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this should be entitled Apogee Software, since that is the company's legal name. Rhindle The Red 01:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

So, should it be reversed? I say yes. Hbdragon88 05:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but not reverse the merge, but change the name to Apogee Software. As everybody seems to be for it, I'll do it. Only problem is, Apogee Software already exists as a redirect... should I copy and paste there? Sega381 05:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Duke Nukem: Endangered Species Hunter?

I'm unsure if the above game exists, as clicking on the link links to a game called Vivisector, which is by another company. Can anyone explain this? Ultim87 02:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Read the Apogee FAQ for more info:[4] Calvero2 09:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

max payne movie

in the "Current state and products" we should mention th max payne movie heres a link to some info about it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467197/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pauldonald86 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

apogee referal

I'm not sure how to change it, but Apogee should no longer refer to 3d realms: http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Apogee_Returns_With_Duke_Nukem_Trilogy_13478_7697_0.htm

Happyness! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.164.12.77 (talk) 17:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Duke Nukem Trilogy

It turns out that there are 3 new games coming to PSP and DS. Critical Mass, Chain Reaction, and Proving Grounds are the names all done by Deep Silver and Apogee. I didn't know where else to go but somebody should start these pages. Here's a link http://ds.ign.com/articles/890/890668p1.html Zabbethx (talk) 17:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually those games are NOT by 3D Realms, they are done by this new company Apogee Software, LLC which is unrelated to 3D Realms/Apogee Software, Ltd. Similarly Prey 2 and Earth No More have been transferred over to Radar Group and are no longer 3D Realms games and therefore shouldn't be on this list. Incarnate never was a 3D Realms game as it has been a Radar Group game from its conception and therefore shouldn't be on the list of games either, Radar Group also isn't related to 3D Realms(or the new Apogee Software) Kristian Joensen (talk) 12:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

We need a page on the new Apogee company, to start putting this info and clear up the confusions...--Sega381 (talk) 12:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR (talk) 05:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

3D Realms → Apogee Software — This is the official name of the company and new games will once again be published under this name. — MrKIA11 (talk) 23:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose --Sega381 (talk) 04:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Be careful, the company that will publish new games is ANOTHER company, Apogee Software LLC, not Apogee Software Inc, which will be just licensing the name from the original Apogee... so in fact, the Apogee company in the article will only continue to publish games under 3D Realms (it's very confusing). Though I agree that the official name is Apogee Software, in practice the name they use right now and will continue to use is 3D Realms, so it actually makes sense retaining that name (as per WP:Naming#Use_the_most_easily_recognized_name). This is not a strong oppose though (I used to support the idea), so if someone has better arguments to support it... --Sega381 (talk) 04:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

So do you think there should be 2 separate pages for the companies? MrKIA11 (talk) 17:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Apogee Software LLC vs Apogee Software Ltd (3D Realms)

(This is a continuation of the discussion in the move proposal above) Be careful, the company that will publish new games is ANOTHER company, Apogee Software LLC, not Apogee Software Ltd, which will be just licensing the name from the original Apogee... so in fact, the Apogee company in the article will only continue to publish games under 3D Realms (it's very confusing). Though I agree that the official name is Apogee Software, in practice the name they use right now and will continue to use is 3D Realms, so it actually makes sense retaining that name (as per WP:Naming#Use_the_most_easily_recognized_name). This is not a strong oppose though (I used to support the idea), so if someone has better arguments to support it... --Sega381 (talk) 04:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

So do you think there should be 2 separate pages for the companies? MrKIA11 (talk) 17:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think that is the best thing to do. Even though the new company, Apogee Software LLC, it's making it appear as it is the same old Apogee Software Ltd for marketing reasons (using the same name, logo, talking about previous games as if they were its own, etc), in fact it is a new company. So, I think there should be a new page for Apogee Software LLC, which tries to clearly state its relationship with Apogee Software Ltd (3D Realms), and which contains further info about its new games. --Sega381 (talk) 11:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, there should be a seperate Apogee Software, LLC page. Also this article says "In July 2008, however, they announced that the brand Apogee Software will be revived with new games on the mobile platform, but licensed to an external company, Apogee Software, LLC." But from the Apogee Software, llc website: "Apogee publishes original content for retail distribution of games for the PC and next generation consoles and handhelds."(http://www.apogeesoftware.com/company.php) On the one hand there is no mention of mobile games, but I assume the article means handheld games(There IS a difference between mobile phones and handheld consoles) so that is just a minor thing. However that quote mentions that they are also a PC and next-gen console publisher so they are not "mobile"(or handheld) only. 66.146.162.106 (talk) 07:30, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Id Software

Why did Id software say that Apogee would no longer publish their games? Enco1984 (talk) 06:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't know. One can only guess that they got a better deal elsewhere. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 15:01, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Background

"Although in its earliest stages, Doom was still an Apogee title."

I don't doubt the factual accuracy of this statement, but a source here would be informative. The earliest version of DOOM I've seen was an early test demo "alpha" [5]. I don't recall any reference to Apogee here, or any mention of this in David Kushner's book MoD, but I could be mistaken.

Spazzmatic (talk) 01:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

According to the book masters of doom Apogee wasn't doing a good job selling there games. They didn't have enough people manning the phones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.124.170 (talk) 22:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Doom was never an Apogee title, in fact, id did not even start work on Doom until after they moved into Suite 666 (post-Apogee). MoD (Pg. 124) 68.193.255.54 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC).

Heads up...

There's word that 3D Realms may have been shut down, but its only as best-guess speculation (no one in 3D realms has confirmed). [6] Please watch for vandals and false info. --MASEM (t) 00:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Shacknews is a pretty reliable source but until there's confirmation this shouldn't hit the main page. BaShildy (talk) 00:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Gamasutra has it now too [7] but I'd really like a stronger confirmation. --MASEM (t) 00:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Now] there is better confirmation (shacknews updated with a company statement. --MASEM (t) 00:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Now there's a BBC News article as well. Loganberry (Talk) 16:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Development Hell

I love how this is considered an encyclopedic term. Even if it is worthy of a wiki, it's hardly legitimate in use in an encyclopedia; it just sounds too much like insider-industry slang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.133.61.34 (talk) 04:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

All the forums are locked on the 3DR page, it looks like it's all over. Unless of course this is a big publicity stunt, although a company member called Joe Siegler said: "It's not a marketing thing. It's true. I have nothing further to say at this time." Stuffs in the BBC article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.124.170 (talk) 22:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

3d Realms are Defunct

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I do belive that 3d Realms are defunct. Am I wrong? mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 18:50, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It seems so, and the article has already been modified to reflect that. However, there hasn't been yet an official statement explaining the exact status and reasons for the closing of the company. --Sega381 (talk) 01:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Cheers. That infomation has been helpful. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 18:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I can only imagine they were shut down because Take Two Interactive didn't want to give them anymore money for a game (Duke Nukem: Forever) that has been in development for 12 years. I know it's hearsay, but you can bet that is the case. Minnesota cold (talk) 01:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thankyou again, that infomation has been helpful aswell. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 14:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

It's almost assuredly a publicity stunt given that information has surfaced showing that a "save Duke Nukem" petition website was registered the day before 3D Realms was speculated to be shutting down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.175.234 (talk) 15:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

So will Duke Nukem Forever see the light of day? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Given the popularity of the game, it might get picked up by another company. It's Take Two's decision since they own the publishing rights. The problem 3D Realms had was they kept changing game engines for one they liked better. Essentially, it's like an artist scraps an entire drawing because they don't like the paper it's being drawn on, so they have to start over from scratch. As for the petition, I wouldn't read too much into that. I am not an insider, but I am sure a 3D Realms (former) employee started it when they got word of the closure. It's the same reason why a video of gameplay was just released on the net. It's not like they had anything else to lose. Minnesota cold (talk) 22:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Again, I must give my thanks for that infomation, as it has been very helpful. mcajakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know exactly how defunct 3D Realms is? As far as I know they no longer have employees (except management), but have they filed bankruptcy? If not, I presume 3D Realms still exists as a company in possession of assets (such as DNF) they could choose to sell or not to sell. Take Two does not own the game, they just have a deal to publish it. – Lakefall (talk) 16:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I dunno, I'll google this one and then see if I can give ya a answer. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 14:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, now Take Two is suing 3D Realms. – Lakefall (talk) 15:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

How would 3D Realms be able to pay for being sued by Take Two if they have gone bust? mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 11:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I would guess Take Two hopes they can't and will just hand over the Duke Nukem IP (source code and rights to future games and other DN merchandise) to them instead. It seems unlikely that George Broussard will settle that easily though. – Lakefall (talk) 13:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Lakefall, may I thank you, as that infomation has been helpful. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 14:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Bold faced lie removed

I removed the bold faced lie that 3D Realms is not operating from the beginning of the article. A company that will release its next game next week and has upwards of 12 projects in the works is most certainly operating Kristian Joensen (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Duke3D XBLA and DNMP XBLA are internal projects

Both of the XBLA titles should go on the list of titles developed since they were done internally as can be seen by their credits: [8] and [9] This is also verified by their MS homepages:

[10] and [11]

Hence I will be moving them to that section 88.85.52.191 (talk) 14:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I will also be adding the external projects released since Prey, not sure if the Mac and Linux ports of Prey belong separately on the list or not so for now I will not be adding them, otherwise I will be adding all the non-freeware releases on this list since 2006: [12] the info on Apogee Software publishing and Mobila Interactive developing the ROTT Iphone port comes from the Apogee Software webpage, the rest is from mobygames. 88.85.52.191 (talk) 14:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Source for Duke3D for Android, DNF DLC and Shadow Warrior iOS

DNF DLC and Duke3D Android are mentioned here: [13]

Machineworks Northwest is mentioned as the publisher(and developer?) of Duke3D for Android here: [14]

Sources for Shadow Warrior iOS(These could also be used to update the Shadow Warrior article): [15], [16]

3D Realms have also signed up with GoG.com, initially releasing Shadow Warrior and Terminal Velocity: [17]

Then following that up with releasing Duke Nukem 1 and 2: [18] Notice that the previous 3DR games released on GoG were put there by the new Apogee. Also notice that Shadow Warrior on GoG was published by Devolver Digital: [19]

This is a somewhat notable fact but I don't think there is any reliable source about that in it self, but this article could merely note it as a fact and the Shadow Warrior article could be updated with that info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.85.52.191 (talk) 19:14, 2 January 2013 (UTC)