Talk:2024 Kansas City parade shooting

Requested move 14 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear consensus against moving to the title proposed. No consensus on alternate titles. (non-admin closure) NasssaNser_talk 11:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Kansas City parade shooting → Kansas City Union Station shooting – It happened at a specific location, and not multiple places. MountainDew20 (talk) 21:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support: I redirected a duplicate article, Union Station shooting, to this one as that title seemed a bit vague given there are several Union Stations, but we should be specific with the location. This is Paul (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  Is there precedence for removing the year? just curious Pdubs.94 (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  Generally we only use dates if lack of a date would make the article ambiguous. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

  per the response from OrlinKolev below, it does look like there is some weak precedent established at WP:NCWWW Pdubs.94 (talk) 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  

  I have been of the belief that years should generally be included if the event is not of significant interest, such as the 2017 Aztec High School shooting. In this case, omitting the year may be more acceptable. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per above.
• Support All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC).
  
• Slight support — The reasoning in the move request is flawed. I initially believed that the shooting was during the event, but I have now learned that it was after. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support move to "2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting" per WP:NCWWW.

EDIT: Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME as pointed out below. I still think the year should stay per WP:NCWWW. In the future, it may be removed if the event is notable, e.g. Boston Marathon bombing, but for now it's too early to tell. OrlinKolev (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support move to "2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting" per WP:NCWWW and because of Kansas City massacre. But it obviously cannot be either "2024 Kansas City parade shooting" or "Kansas City Union Station shooting". — Smuckola(talk) 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support From the above user, reading Kansas City massacre tells that a shootout took place at the same Union Station in Kansas City in 1933, meaning that the year is definitely needed. Move to 2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting, or some other solution including the year. -boldblazer 22:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight oppose per COMMONNAME; Support for year removal - Sources seem to be more referencing the parade than the union terminal: 1 dead and up to 15 injured after shooting near Kansas City Chiefs parade, police chief says; 1 dead and multiple injured in shooting following Chiefs Super Bowl parade; At least one killed and up to 14 hurt at Kansas City Chiefs parade shooting; 1 dead, up to 15 injured in shooting at Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl rally; 8 to 10 people injured after shooting near Kansas City Chiefs parade, official says; Kansas City Shooting Reported After Chiefs’ Super Bowl Victory Parade Ends, at Least 10 Injured; One dead, at least 10 wounded after shots fired into crowd at Kansas City Chiefs rally: Live updates; One dead, others injured in shooting during Kansas City Super Bowl parade. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  Neither COMMONNAME nor the WP:NOYEAR exemption from WP:NCWWW can be established in the hours immediately following an event such as this. If this was a shooting that had happened at least a year ago, or preferably 5 or 10 years ago then I'd agree that you'd be able to demonstrate common name. But not for an even that happened a little under 4 hours ago. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  I profoundly disagree with this on a WP:COMMONSENSE level, as references to the primary fact of the shooting being that it happened at a Super Bowl victory parade versus that it happened at a railway station is simply overwhelming and decisive in favour of the former, as demonstrated above. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per argument above about COMMONNAME ChessEric 22:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight support: it's reasonable, the only issue I'd have is with the year, you'd have to put "2024" in the front of the title. 𝔐𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔊𝔬𝔡27 (talk) 22:57, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per confusion with the Kansas City massacre. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:NCWWW/WP:NCEVENTS and a need for disambiguation from other notable mass shootings in Kansas City. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:45, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now, this is especially notable because it took place during the parade. Jbvann05 00:09, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Do NOT remove the word “Parade” from the title, because that is why the shooting happened. 2601:646:4102:2500:4124:12C9:6B9A:6A91 (talk) 00:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  That’s not WHY it happened, it’s WHERE it happened. Nonetheless, I think I now would support “2024 Kansas City Union Square shooting” more because I was unaware of the shootout that happened there in 1933. MountainDew20 (talk) 00:51, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now While I'm not thrilled about using the year, for now this works as a title. In addition, I agree about the potential confusion with the Kansas City massacre. Maybe ultimately title it "Kansas City Chiefs victory parade shooting"? With or without the year? Paris1127 (talk) 00:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, as I would much prefer a title that reflects the nature of the incident as having occurred at a Super Bowl victory parade. Natural disambiguation is preferred per WP:NATURAL, and so we should be straying away from titles that include and/or place emphasis on the shooting's location, as there have been many shootings in Kansas City, and many shootings at stations named "Union Station", as others in this conversation have pointed out. As far as I'm aware, this is the first time one has occurred at a Super Bowl parade, and placing emphasis on this instead will lead to a more natural article title that does away with a need to disambiguate with "2024". — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per common name. Also This wasn't the only notable shooting at Union Station as there was a major FBI shootout in 1933 that became notable in Kansas City History and actually is what many of us in the area had thought of in the proposed name here upto today's incident. Sawblade5 ^{(talk to me | my wiki life)} 00:45, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  • note See also Kansas City massacre on this. I do not Oppose the proposed page being used as a Disambiguation page for both incidents. Sawblade5 ^{(talk to me | my wiki life)} 00:49, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. The parade was central to the shooting. It should be included in the title. WWGB (talk) 00:52, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight oppose - I think if anything Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting (without the year) would suffice. CNC33 (. . .talk) 01:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  I'd support this wording of the title, or something similar to it. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose removal of the year per WP:NOYEAR. No opinion on the other part of the request. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support change in title. The shooting occurred after the parade and not on the route. It took place west of Union Station and the change to "Kansas City Union Station Shooting" makes more sense. 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 02:33, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose This is so recent that I don't think WP:COMMONNAME is something to think about quite yet. I would wait and see what it ends up being called/what sticks in a week or so. I do think that the KS city union station shooting is too generalized though, and union station/Kansas city massacre (a different event) is too close.  $Jayhawker6$【💬】 03:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per current WP:COMMONNAME and as too early per User:Jayhawker6 above. Springnuts (talk) 11:10, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  These reasons are directly contrary to one another. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC).
  

• Support The shooting didn't happen during the parade but after the rally at Union Station had concluded. That being said, the title should be "2024 Kansas City Union Station Shooting" so as not to confuse it with the infamous Kansas City massacre in the '30s. Listen1st (talk) 15:10, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose - Support 2024 Kansas City shooting per WP:CONCISE. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

    Too ambiguous, as there had already been at least two other mass shootings this year in Kansas City. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

    • Reply - Neither of which has a Wikipedia article. --Jax 0677 (talk) 13:13, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME PaulRKil (talk) 16:36, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose I personally think Super Bowl LVIII parade shooting is most appropriate, but I might be in a minority with that one. Still, the proposed name feel unnatural.69.118.230.235 (talk) 22:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight oppose per WP:NCWWW and to avoid confusion with the Kansas City Massacre and other mass shootings in Kansas City. Support year removal on the basis of WP:NOYEAR Telpies (talk) 06:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - The fact that this is a parade is central to the shooting and the event. It is what it is being most commonly referred to as. DocZach (talk) 14:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. In the news coverage I've seen (based in the UK), that it took place at the parade has been prominently mentioned multiple times, that it took place at a railway station has been barely mentioned (if at all). Thryduulf (talk) 00:04, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose In Canada, all references are to Kansas City and the Super Bowl parade when it comes to this shooting. Union station is not mentioned. People would associate the Union Station shooting with some other event. soulscanner (talk) 01:25, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Strong Oppose

This story is newsworthy because of the parade. There have been several shootings at Union station with significantly less notability. 136.32.93.95 (talk) 22:56, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Slight oppose Year removal -> Kansas City parade shooting should be suitable WikiinstA2001 (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 22 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There was consensus to retain the current title. Per the poll, 4 editors supported retaining the current name and 1 opposed, while 6 editors supported "Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting", 1 was neutral, and 1 opposed. However, RM discussions are !votes, so I evaluated arguments based in policies and guidelines.

As an initial matter, there was a strong consensus that WP:NOYEAR does not apply to this event because it is not so immediately identifiable that the date is not needed in the article title. One editor argued that "2024 Kansas City shooting" is WP:CONCISE, but other editors argued that "Kansas City shooting" is too ambiguous (i.e., not WP:PRECISE), as there have been other shootings in Kansas City in 2024. (non-admin closure) voorts (talk/contributions) 02:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Kansas City parade shooting → Kansas City parade shooting or Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting — The previous discussion returned no consensus on alternate proposed titles, so let's discuss the specific proposal to remove the year from the title. While I recognise that WP:NOYEAR is in spirit meant to be reserved for recognisably historic events, I still find it unnecessary to disambiguate "Kansas City parade shooting" or "Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting", as I'm at a loss to think of anything that they could be confused with. In the specific context of parades held in Kansas City, this event was unprecedented. — AFC Vixen 🦊 13:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering (talk) 16:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support "2024 Kansas City shooting" - Support 2024 Kansas City shooting per WP:CONCISE. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:36, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support "2024 Kansas City shooting" per Jax 0677. This shooting does not come close to the magnitude/importance of the examples listed in WP:NOYEAR. Also, Kansas City massacre exists. And 2016 Kansas–Missouri murder spree (although to be fair this took place in Kansas City, Kansas, not Kansas City, Missouri).  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 08:13, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support current title "2024 Kansas City parade shooting" - oppose move. - I think current title is clear and descriptive, and agree that event is not widely known enough to remove year. I think however removing "parade" makes title then too general. MOSforever (talk) 17:48, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
• Neutral overall - Personally am okay if the year ends up not being removed, though my preference would be to remove it. I do have a concern that there might have been a parade leading up to the Super Bowl around or on February 11, which could make some of the options below slightly misleading. Other than those two things, I am okay with both the current title and some of the alternates. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:37, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

  Per Amakuru, here we go: 2024 Kansas City shooting - Dislike on the grounds that it isn't the only such shooting in Kansas City, which was part of the prior RM discussion, though this has been the most prominent incident this year; 2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting - Dislike on the grounds that references don't focus on it it being at Union Station as much as it being connected to the parade, though it has been mentioned in press releases; 2024 Super Bowl parade shooting - As noted in my earlier comment, this title is too vague and could refer to or otherwise imply a parade before the Super Bowl instead of a victory parade after the Super Bowl; Kansas City parade shooting - Not my first preference as shown below, but it does make it much clearer where the parade took place over the prior option and there have been no other parade shooting in Kansas City to my current knowledge; Kansas City shooting - Way too vague to consider; Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting - Still not my first preference, but it is descriptive enough that it has my support overall. It also does cover a potential situation where there was a past parade shooting in Kansas City, which covers the Precision portion of CRITERIA; Kansas City Union Station shooting - In the prior RM, I was told that COMMONNAME should not apply, however there have apparently been multiple shooting at Union Station that would likely make this title still be too vague; Super Bowl LVIII parade shooting - "As noted in my earlier comment, this title is too vague and could refer to or otherwise imply a parade before the Super Bowl instead of a victory parade after the Super Bowl." Nothing much to add; Union Station shooting - Another way too vague to consider title. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:55, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

• Relist comment: Relisting to allow more time for the poll below, in the hopes we can get a clearer outcome that would avoid another separate RM discussion. -- asilvering (talk) 16:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
• Support 2024 Kansas City shooting or retain current version. The year belongs in the title, per standard WP:NCE naming conventions, and while this was fairly big in the news recently, it's not such a major well-known event that NOYEAR really applies. I don't mind removing "parade", but otherwise leave as is.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:34, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

  Also, strong oppose "Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting" - that's not in any way an improvement on the current status quo, and while there are some "votes" for it in the "poll" below, I don't see any guideline-based rationale for such a title, which is required per WP:NOTAVOTE. It's less concise than the alternatives and also is not compliant with WP:NCE.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Poll to determine the best new title

I am starting this section to begin a poll for which of the existing redirects is the best new title for this article. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

2024 Kansas City parade shooting

1. N — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Y ― MOSforever (talk) 20:38, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Y ― Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Y --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Y – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

2024 Kansas City shooting

1. Y --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Y  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 19:09, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. N -CNC33 (. . .talk) 20:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
5. N — MOSforever (talk) 20:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
6. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
7. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
8. N – Overly general. NasssaNser 13:05, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
9. N — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
10. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting

1. N — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. N — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

2024 Super Bowl parade shooting

1. N — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Kansas City parade shooting

1. Y — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 19:09, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Y ― Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Yg --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Kansas City shooting

1. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
3. N — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting

1. Y — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Y - CNC33 (. . .talk) 20:15, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Y ― Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Y ― MisawaSakura (talk) 14:37, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Yg --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Y -- Arcturis (talk) 00:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Y — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
8. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Kansas City Union Station shooting

— This option was already ruled out by consensus in the previous discussion. — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:43, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Super Bowl LVIII parade shooting

1. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
3. N — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Union Station shooting

1. N --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:02, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
2. N — Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. N --Super Goku V (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. N — Linguistical (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
5. N – Raskuly (talk) 02:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

End of post statement. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2024

I would like to add information about the perpetrators, like names and more information about the motives that were brought up in court and the criminal complaint. https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article285817466.html https://nypost.com/2024/02/20/us-news/alleged-kansas-city-chiefs-parade-shooter-lyndell-mays-told-cops-he-was-just-being-stupid-court-docs/ UnTaxable (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also please note that the New York Post is not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. Feel free to reopen with specific text suggestions and a different source. Jamedeus (talk) 22:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

@Jamedeus: Based on the timing and the request, I don't think using the "change X to Y" format would work. The request wants to add the names of the two adult suspects to the article, among other details. Given BLPCRIME, it would be best to have a discussion about naming them rather than mentioning their names on the talk page. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:45, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Fair points, you're right I wasn't making the public figure distinction. Thanks for the note. Jamedeus (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kansas City shooting (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)