Talk:2024–25 UEFA Nations League
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Russia's color on the map
[edit]I think Russia should be TBD too. 177.76.22.139 (talk) 06:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
- For what reason do you see this necessity? Regardless of whether the ban holds by the start of Nations League, Russia will be in League C. Jalen Folf (talk) 06:22, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think we should color Russia as it was already barred. I think coloring the country as TBD is better. 177.76.22.139 (talk) 14:03, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
League C relegation play-outs
[edit]Regarding:
"the two worst-ranked League C teams will automatically be relegated (a change from the previous editions, which featured relegation play-outs between the fourth-placed teams of League C)".
Sure? The publication about the new Nations League at UEFA web site doesn't say anything about cancellation of these play-outs, does it? SomeBody1971 (talk) 21:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- @SomeBody1971: The UEFA diagram says there is only direct relegation from League C. S.A. Julio (talk) 05:42, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- It's not so obvious. SomeBody1971 (talk) 02:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
UEFA-CONMEBOL Agreement And Participation of CONMEBOL Teams in 2024/2025 UEFA Nations League
[edit]According to The "UEFA-CONMEBOL memorandum of understanding" Some or All Of the CONMEBOL Teams Can/Will Be Part of Future UEFA Nations Leagues. It was Ratified In 2022 And Confirms the Participation of The 2024/2025 UEFA Nations League (For more Information. Look up the "UEFA-CONMEBOL memorandum of understanding".) Orange Anomaly. (talk) 23:59, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Treaty
[edit]I can see Russia being suspended again until they do a peace treaty or an Armistice with Ukraine and unless Putin dies, I can't see that happening and 2024-25, League D be 6 teams, as UEFA have no choice to suspend Russia permanently or they join AFC Japhes Japhes23 (talk) 22:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- 25-26 not 24-25 Japhes23 (talk) 22:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Russia still banned
[edit]https://www.cfa.com.cy/Gr/news/48053 92.13.121.235 (talk) 11:00, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0288-1998d51d0fd5-7d6b0ba88ce6-1000/04.03.02_unl_2425_league_phase_draw_procedure_en.pdf 92.13.121.235 (talk) 13:13, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
Map updates?
[edit]Cyprus and Belarus have been confirmed as remaining in League C, and Russia is confirmed as banned. Can someone update the map image to reflect this? https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0288-1998d51d0fd5-7d6b0ba88ce6-1000/04.03.02_unl_2425_league_phase_draw_procedure_en.pdf Tedeff (talk) 15:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Israel's inclusion is noteworthy
[edit]I don't think any of you guys're gonna try to deny Israel's atrocities in Gaza Strip, it's a documented fact that has been addressed here in Wikipedia too. I assume that the issue here is whethe to mention that Israel is not banned despite its human rights and international law violations. One might (naively) wonder if Israel is going to get banned aswell because it also did violate International Law. Clarification might be useful in that case, therefore I support mentioning it. @Thmetzi Spclmnt (talk) 10:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think this doesn't belong into any football related article as we cannot discuss every ongoing conflict on earth (e.g. Karabakh conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan). Only if UEFA or any other association takes consequences. Thmetzi (talk) 13:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Like I told, one might wonder if Israel is going to get banned aswell. Karabakh conflict is already loosely referenced in the article by saying that Armenia and Azerbaijan can't be matched. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, this leaves Israel as the only UEFA member to have an ongoing conflict not mentioned in here. Also to better emphasize my point: Gaza war is not being discussed here because it's a "political conflict", it's discussed because it's an illegal occupation of a country that involves massacres,[1] mass starvation, indiscriminate bombing,[2] killing of healthcare workers[3] and journalists,[4] and many other breaking of International Law. If Russia is banned for violating the International Law and Israel is not, I believe it constitutes a noticeable and notable occasion, because it's a double standard, and double standards are noticeable and notable. Spclmnt (talk) 15:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Spclmnt: We report on facts and what is pertinent to the article in question. For example, including a statement about the Russian invasion of Ukraine is pertinent because that action led directly to the ongoing suspension of Russia from all international sporting events. Unless and until Israel are suspended, disqualified, or otherwise banned from competition, we do not comment in this article on the ongoing conflicts, regardless of how heinous one side's actions may be. If you continue to try to force your favored version, you could find yourself blocked from editing at all. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 19:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Then there's no point in discussing if threatening started. I mean why would anyone try to change your mind when I know you'll block me instead of actually changing your mind? Why even is this talk page here if you have entrenched opinions about how this page oughta look like? Just let me let you know that arguing for or against something is not forcing one's favored version. In fact, you're the one who forces their favored version here. Spclmnt (talk) 20:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Spclmnt: It's not about opinions; it's about policies, guidelines and consensus. Politics are not discussed in sports articles unless there is a direct correlation between the subjects. Also, stating that you could be blocked is not a threat; it is an admonition of the possible consequences for edit-warring. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines so you can become a productive editor. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 21:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I want to say that those policies, guidelines and consensus themselves are wrong, but I guess you cannot question them. How clever. Pretending that you're a space for productive discussion that everyone can participate, but you can't say how uncool the "policies, guidelines and consensus" are, it's a no-go. Spclmnt (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Spclmnt: It's not about opinions; it's about policies, guidelines and consensus. Politics are not discussed in sports articles unless there is a direct correlation between the subjects. Also, stating that you could be blocked is not a threat; it is an admonition of the possible consequences for edit-warring. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines so you can become a productive editor. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 21:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Then there's no point in discussing if threatening started. I mean why would anyone try to change your mind when I know you'll block me instead of actually changing your mind? Why even is this talk page here if you have entrenched opinions about how this page oughta look like? Just let me let you know that arguing for or against something is not forcing one's favored version. In fact, you're the one who forces their favored version here. Spclmnt (talk) 20:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Spclmnt: We report on facts and what is pertinent to the article in question. For example, including a statement about the Russian invasion of Ukraine is pertinent because that action led directly to the ongoing suspension of Russia from all international sporting events. Unless and until Israel are suspended, disqualified, or otherwise banned from competition, we do not comment in this article on the ongoing conflicts, regardless of how heinous one side's actions may be. If you continue to try to force your favored version, you could find yourself blocked from editing at all. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 19:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Like I told, one might wonder if Israel is going to get banned aswell. Karabakh conflict is already loosely referenced in the article by saying that Armenia and Azerbaijan can't be matched. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, this leaves Israel as the only UEFA member to have an ongoing conflict not mentioned in here. Also to better emphasize my point: Gaza war is not being discussed here because it's a "political conflict", it's discussed because it's an illegal occupation of a country that involves massacres,[1] mass starvation, indiscriminate bombing,[2] killing of healthcare workers[3] and journalists,[4] and many other breaking of International Law. If Russia is banned for violating the International Law and Israel is not, I believe it constitutes a noticeable and notable occasion, because it's a double standard, and double standards are noticeable and notable. Spclmnt (talk) 15:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/flour-massacre-how-gaza-food-killings-unfolded-and-israels-story-changed
- ^ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
- ^ https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-236
- ^ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/8/26/israels-war-on-gaza-live-panicked-patients-flee-al-aqsa-martyrs-hospital
Top goalscorers table League D
[edit]What's wrong with the template compared to other leagues? Island92 (talk) 17:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Island92: I tried working with that a while ago, but I can't figure out why League D populates with the full layout but not with the table. I have reviewed the Lua code and data entries to the best of my abilities and cannot figure out where the error lies. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 18:46, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah me too I don't really understand where the issue may be. Island92 (talk) 19:01, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I posted the issue at Module talk:Goalscorers#Table display error, which I actually should have done last month when I couldn't figure it out. Now we hurry up and wait. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 19:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. Island92 (talk) 20:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Now working. Island92 (talk) 16:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- They found an error where the table would not populate if all goalscorers had 1 goal. It may have been a general error that would occur if all goalscorers had the same number of goals (e.g. 2 or 3), but they can work on a more general solution if that ever pops up. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 17:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Now working. Island92 (talk) 16:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. Island92 (talk) 20:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I posted the issue at Module talk:Goalscorers#Table display error, which I actually should have done last month when I couldn't figure it out. Now we hurry up and wait. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 19:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah me too I don't really understand where the issue may be. Island92 (talk) 19:01, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Romania v Kosovo
[edit]@Jkudlick: Romania v Kosovo was not fully completed. Was abandoned. Matches played are 120. Romania and Kosovo in standings have both played 4 matches, not five. It is not possible to display 120. Island92 (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok now I understand. 120 is for matches played until 15 November. Today some matches were played at 15:00 and 18:00. I tend to update the stats once in the evening only after 20:45 matches. Island92 (talk) 19:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
Top scorer by division
[edit]It seems misleading to attribute a single top scorer across all league divisions (A, B, C, and D) since the divisions vary in quality. Could we highlight one top scorer per division instead? 66.253.180.98 (talk) 22:45, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
League C/D Playoff doubt
[edit]What is the reason, why League C/D that might not go ahead. Jamestwice (talk) 23:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jamestwice: Where are you seeing that the League C/D playoffs might not be held? Everything I see still shows they will take place in spring 2026. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- On here, in the section marked Promotion/relegation play off, it is put in brackets, (if played at all) Jamestwice. Jamestwice (talk) 23:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jamestwice: Regulation 16.05 states that if any team scheduled for the League C/D Playoffs qualified for the second round of World Cup qualifying, then the League C/D Playoffs would be canceled and the four teams would all remain in the same leagues. This is because the League C/D Playoffs and the second round of World Cup qualifying are both scheduled for March 2026. This is also described in the section marked "Schedule." The regulations are also cited in multiple locations throughout the article, though the prose in this section could be better written. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- I see they've moved the League C/D playoffs to 2026, but the reasoning given in the article (to avoid classes with the world cup qualifying) doesn't seem to make sense.
- My understanding was that for world cup qualifying, teams playing in March would start qualifying late to avoid clashes, either by being drawn into groups of 4 that didn't start until September, or by being drawn into groups of 5 and not playing the first two matchdays (limiting groups of five to 1 team competing in the nations league per group of 5).
- Implementing this rule, I see that the quarter finalist and playoff teams in pot 1 would need to be drawn into all the groups of four, and 4 of the groups of five. Now that only leaves 2 groups of five that can still support playoff teams. But the playoff teams in pots 2, 3 and 4 could all have gone in the groups of four, and there were only 2 playoff teams in group 5 (Gibralta and Malta). So it seems to me that moving these fixtures to 2026 wasn't needed just "to avoid classes with the world cup qualifying". Was there another reason? 2.122.137.18 (talk) 16:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- to clarify: "...teams playing in (the nations league in) March would..." 2.122.137.18 (talk) 16:10, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- The League C/D fixtures weren't moved to 2026; they were always scheduled for 2026 because if they were to have been played in 2025, there was a strong possibility that would not leave enough teams to play the March window of World Cup qualifying matches. This was announced by UEFA on 11 December 2023 as part of the UNL Regulations. You also misunderstand the draw constraints; there are only six groups with four teams, and the League A quarter-final winners must be drawn into groups of four so they will have free dates in June 2025 for the semi-final and final matches. This means that at least two of the quarter-finalists must be drawn into groups of five, leaving no more than four groups of five with an open slot for UNL participation after the Pot 1 draw is complete. Yes, it would be theoretically possible that all the teams qualifying for playoffs were drawn in such a way that the League C/D Playoffs could be held in March 2025, but the number of adjustments to each draw pot and the draw conditions to be implemented would be to a level that could be considered unethical, especially given that the League D participants were all but guaranteed to be in Pot 5. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- So they havn't been moved... fair enough.
- However, as for the draw constraints: I think either my working was unclear, or you are forgetting about Belgium and Austria in pot 1. Yes, they can be drawn into any group of five, but they are competing in Nations League play-offs and therefore, no other Nations League play-offs sides can be added to their groups from pots 2-5. Leaving only 2 groups of five suitable for further Nations League play-offs teams. 2.122.137.18 (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- (Admitedly it is now hypothetical, but thought it was worth clearing up) 2.122.137.18 (talk) 18:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Good point about Belgium and Austria. I was so focused on the quarter-finalists that I forgot about them being in Pot 1 also. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 18:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- The League C/D fixtures weren't moved to 2026; they were always scheduled for 2026 because if they were to have been played in 2025, there was a strong possibility that would not leave enough teams to play the March window of World Cup qualifying matches. This was announced by UEFA on 11 December 2023 as part of the UNL Regulations. You also misunderstand the draw constraints; there are only six groups with four teams, and the League A quarter-final winners must be drawn into groups of four so they will have free dates in June 2025 for the semi-final and final matches. This means that at least two of the quarter-finalists must be drawn into groups of five, leaving no more than four groups of five with an open slot for UNL participation after the Pot 1 draw is complete. Yes, it would be theoretically possible that all the teams qualifying for playoffs were drawn in such a way that the League C/D Playoffs could be held in March 2025, but the number of adjustments to each draw pot and the draw conditions to be implemented would be to a level that could be considered unethical, especially given that the League D participants were all but guaranteed to be in Pot 5. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 16:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- to clarify: "...teams playing in (the nations league in) March would..." 2.122.137.18 (talk) 16:10, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jamestwice: Regulation 16.05 states that if any team scheduled for the League C/D Playoffs qualified for the second round of World Cup qualifying, then the League C/D Playoffs would be canceled and the four teams would all remain in the same leagues. This is because the League C/D Playoffs and the second round of World Cup qualifying are both scheduled for March 2026. This is also described in the section marked "Schedule." The regulations are also cited in multiple locations throughout the article, though the prose in this section could be better written. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- On here, in the section marked Promotion/relegation play off, it is put in brackets, (if played at all) Jamestwice. Jamestwice (talk) 23:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
The dates in the infobox
[edit]I made this edit, which S.A. Julio then reverted. I made it again, with a modification to comply with S.A. Julio's remark, but it was then reverted by Island92.
Is this really a better display? Infoboxes are not meant to contain full comprehensive schedules, and should be minimally cluttered. The logical sequence is more important than the chronological order here. --Theurgist (talk) 10:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Basically it should be as displayed in the table here. Island92 (talk) 10:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Should it? The infobox is a summary of the article, not a repetition of the article. --Theurgist (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- But chronological order. Island92 (talk) 16:08, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Should it? The infobox is a summary of the article, not a repetition of the article. --Theurgist (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Technically my version is still in chronological order, by starting date. And also in a better logical order. --Theurgist (talk) 18:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Words should not be cut. It must be read clearly. Island92 (talk) 19:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Technically my version is still in chronological order, by starting date. And also in a better logical order. --Theurgist (talk) 18:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- I daresay mine is actually read more clearly, as long as you have some idea how the competition works. And if you don't, the infobox alone can't teach you everything – that's what the body is for. --Theurgist (talk) 01:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- What does Lg might stand for? League is more proper. Island92 (talk) 21:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- I daresay mine is actually read more clearly, as long as you have some idea how the competition works. And if you don't, the infobox alone can't teach you everything – that's what the body is for. --Theurgist (talk) 01:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- If that's the problem, there you go. --Theurgist (talk) 12:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sorry but I do not like it. @S.A. Julio: what do you think? Island92 (talk) 20:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- There is a practice that involves past and future editions of this competition with the same style in the infobox. Why does it have to be different in comparison with? Island92 (talk) 20:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sorry but I do not like it. @S.A. Julio: what do you think? Island92 (talk) 20:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- If that's the problem, there you go. --Theurgist (talk) 12:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
@Island92 and Theurgist: As a disinterested party in this slow edit-war, I admonish both of you to stop reverting each other until this discussion is over. While neither of you have violated 3RR, the back-and-forth is inherently disruptive. That said, I prefer how this edit looks. It just makes more sense to me. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 21:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- To me, it seems repetitive to list "20–23 March 2025" twice in the infobox. Also, the current version maintains the chronological order by clearly denoting the League C/D play-offs occur last. Additionally, saying "Play-offs: 20 March 2025 – 31 March 2026" makes it seem as though the first/second legs are split over a year apart. S.A. Julio (talk) 19:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)