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Talk:2024–25 Romanian presidential election

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Candidates section is atrocious

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I'm sorry but mentioning Orban in the PNL section while leaving out Ciuca, the frontrunner for the Liberals, is satire right? 109.255.241.4 (talk) 16:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Results page and abroad voting

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When looking at the cited page for results, it seems to be split into 2 sections, internal and abroad.

Shouldn't the final tally reflect the 2 added together? Jlaursen (talk) 04:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The layout of the website is quite misleading. The "România" tab includes both the internal and diaspora vote. 178.164.249.145 (talk) 08:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a source? @Aréat and Number 57: Panam2014 (talk) 12:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

table

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Now i admit its getting hard, what do you think?

Alliance Party Ideology First round Second round
PSD Alliance Social Democratic Party Social democracy Marcel Ciolacu TBA
PRO Romania Social liberalism Marcel Ciolacu[a] TBA
National Liberal Party Liberal conservatism Nicolae Ciucă Elena Lasconi[3]
Alliance for the Union of Romanians Romanian nationalism George Simion Călin Georgescu[4]
Save Romania Union Liberalism Elena Lasconi Elena Lasconi
S.O.S. Romania Ultranationalism Invalid[b] Călin Georgescu[6]
AFDLC Force of the Right Liberal conservatism Elena Lasconi[7] Elena Lasconi
The Right Alternative National conservatism Elena Lasconi[7] Elena Lasconi
National Peasants' Party Maniu-Mihalache Agrarianism Elena Lasconi[7] Elena Lasconi
People's Movement Party National conservatism Elena Lasconi[8] Elena Lasconi
PDPP Renewing Romania's European Project Liberalism Elena Lasconi[9] Elena Lasconi
Democracy and Solidarity Party Democratic socialism Elena Lasconi[10] Elena Lasconi
PNCR Alliance Romanian National Conservative Party National conservatism Cristian Terheș TBA
Republican Party of Romania Romanian nationalism Cristian Terheș[11] TBA
National Identity Force Party Romanian nationalism Cristian Terheș[12] TBA
Christian Democratic National Peasants' Party Agrarianism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[13]
Romanian Ecologist Party Green conservatism Cristian Diaconescu[14] TBA
Romania in Action Party Localism Mircea Geoană TBA
National Action League Party Social liberalism Silviu Predoiu No endorsement[15]
Greater Romania Party Romanian nationalism Mircea Geoană[16] TBA
ASR Romanian Socialist Party Communism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[17]
Social Democratic Workers' Party Socialism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[17]
Romanian Communist Party of the 21st Century Marxism–Leninism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[17]
Communists' Party Communism Boycott[18] Boycott[19]
Party of Young People Christian nationalism Călin Georgescu[20] Călin Georgescu
National Christian Alliance Christian nationalism Cristian Diaconescu[21] TBA
Alternative for National Dignity Romanian nationalism Alexandra Păcuraru Călin Georgescu[22]
New Romania Party Romanian nationalism Sebastian Popescu No endorsement[23]
Patriots of the Romanian People Romanian nationalism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[24]
Romanian Village Party Agrarianism No endorsement Călin Georgescu[25]
UDMR Alliance Democratic Alliance of Hungarians Hungarians minority interests Hunor Kelemen TBA
Hungarian Alliance of Transylvania Hungarian nationalism Hunor Kelemen[26] TBA
Hungarian Civic Force Hungarians minority interests Hunor Kelemen[27] TBA
GPMN Party of the Roma Romani minority interests Marcel Ciolacu[28] TBA
Democratic Forum of Germans German minority interests Against extremists[29] Elena Lasconi[30]

@PLATEL: Braganza (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

shorten the alliance names to abbreviations and I think this can be included in the page  PLATEL  (talk) 05:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ "PRO România Sibiu și Partida Romilor Pro Europa susțin candidații PSD la alegerile prezidențiale și parlamentare". Ora de Sibiu (in Romanian). 2024-11-07. Retrieved 2024-11-26.
  2. ^ "Acord politic în Sălaj între PSD și Pro România pentru alegerile prezidențiale și parlamentare". Monitorul de Sălaj (in Romanian). 2024-10-14. Retrieved 2024-11-26.
  3. ^ Roman, Mihai (25 November 2024). "BREAKING Ilie Bolojan: Am decis ca PNL să susțină fără nici un fel de negociere candidatura Elenei Lasconi în turul 2 al alegerilor prezidențiale". G4Media.ro (in Romanian).
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference AUR was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ "SCRIE AVEVĂRUL PE BULETINUL DE VOT". S.O.S. Romania (in Romanian). 23 November 2024. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  6. ^ "Şoşoacă spune că-l susține pe Călin Georgescu doar dacă o să fie numită prim-ministru". G4Media.ro (in Romanian). 2024-11-25. Retrieved 2024-11-25.
  7. ^ a b c "Forța Dreptei o susține pe Elena Lasconi în turul 1 al alegerilor prezidențiale". Force of the Right (in Romanian). 2024-11-23. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  8. ^ "Traian Băsescu: "Acum, nu mai am decât o obligație morală - să susțin Forța Dreptei în folosul doamnei Lasconi"". People's Movement Party (in Romanian). 2024-11-21. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  9. ^ "REPER o susţine pe Lasconi în turul I al alegerilor prezidenţiale". Bursa (in Romanian). 2024-11-21. Retrieved 2024-11-25.
  10. ^ "Alegerile prezidențiale din România prezintă un tablou politic trist". Democracy and Solidarity Party (in Romanian). 2024-11-22. Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  11. ^ "Uniti pentru Romania!". Marian Cucșa (in Romanian). 2024-10-15. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  12. ^ "FIN - Partidul Forța Identității Naționale susține mișcarea politică suveranistă inițiată de eurodeputatul Cristian Terheș, care candidează la funcția de președinte al României". National Identity Force Party (in Romanian). 2024-10-18. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  13. ^ Aurelian Pavelescu (2024-11-25). "PNȚCD - Călin Georgescu Președinte al României!" (in Romanian). Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  14. ^ "Votează cu responsabilitate - votează Cristian Diaconescu". Romanian Ecologist Party (in Romanian). 22 November 2024. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  15. ^ "Silviu Predoiu, candidat în turul întâi al alegerilor prezidenţiale, susţine că vor urma "timpuri dificile", dar, probabil, societatea românească avea nevoie de o asemenea "lecţie"". Agerpres (in Romanian). 2024-11-25. Retrieved 2024-11-25.
  16. ^ "Partidul România Mare îl susţine la Prezidenţiale pe candidatul independent Mircea Geoană | replicaonline.ro".
  17. ^ a b c "COMUNICAT". Socialist Romania (in Romanian). 2024-11-28. Retrieved 2024-11-28 – via Facebook.
  18. ^ "Nu votez !". Communists' Party (in Romanian). 2024-11-24. Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  19. ^ "Ați votat schimbarea ?". Communists' Party (in Romanian). 2024-11-25. Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  20. ^ Cite error: The named reference POT was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  21. ^ "Comunicat de presă - Alianţa Naţional Creştină". Agerpres (in Romanian). 2024-10-21. Retrieved 2024-11-26.
  22. ^ Cite error: The named reference ADN was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  23. ^ "Am depus la CCR o cerere de anulare a alegerilor prezidențiale". Sebastian Popescu (in Romanian). 2024-10-26. Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  24. ^ "Acum este momentul patrio". Patriots of the Romanian People (in Romanian). 2024-11-25. Retrieved 2024-11-25. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |2= (help); Text "-" ignored (help); Text "Democratic Alliance of Hungariansților! Partidul Patrioții Poporului Român (PPR) salută victoria lui Călin Georgescu" ignored (help)
  25. ^ https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18NjYfpASR/
  26. ^ Létai, Tibor (2024-11-20). "Erős hang, erős mandátum – a választásokon való részvétel fontosságára figyelmeztetett Korodi Attila és Tőke Ervin". Új Magyar Szó (in Hungarian). Retrieved 2024-11-25.
  27. ^ "November 24-én államelnököt választunk". József Kulcsár-Terza (in Hungarian). 2024-11-19. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  28. ^ "Partida Romilor Pro Europa îl susţine pe Marcel Ciolacu la alegerile prezidenţiale şi colaborează cu PSD la parlamentare". Agerpres (in Romanian). 2024-11-01. Retrieved 2024-11-25.
  29. ^ "Wahlempfehlung des DFDR". Democratic Forum of Germans in Romania (in German). 2024-11-22. Retrieved 2024-11-25 – via Facebook.
  30. ^ "Wahlempfehlung des DFDR". Democratic Forum of Germans in Romania (in German). 2024-11-26. Retrieved 2024-11-26 – via Facebook.
  1. ^ At least by the local branches in Sibiu County[1] and Sălaj County.[2]
  2. ^ The party called to write-in Diana Iovanovici Șoșoacă[5] thus making the ballot invalid.

Split

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Hi

We should create a new article for 2025 polls. Electoral process have been cancelled. Panam2014 (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Was the date really moved to 2025? There are 25 days left till next year. Borgenland (talk) 14:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We need 30 days of electoral campaign, aside from the time required for gathering signatures for the candidates who will enter the new race. Most likely will be in spring of 2025, but the government has not set the date. Gdaniel111 (talk) 16:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
agreed. With the time frame new elections (first and second round) are likely to be set for next year. I think that the results of this election should be considered a seperate election. EmilePersaud (talk) 16:07, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this article should be only about the anulled elections. Gdaniel111 (talk) 16:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think a split might be neccesary for the article to be coherent. This is especially the case if (as I understand is the case) the candidates will be different in the re-run. At that point, how do you depict the now cancelled 2024 first round without it being confusing? Gust Justice (talk) 19:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on whether the fresh elections are considered a re-run or a separate election. It seems to me that the fresh elections are a re-run similar to 2013 Maldivian presidential election, and so the article should not be split. However, the article may need retitling 2024–25 Romanian presidential election. Number 57 19:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current page should be about the annulled election. I suggest creating a new article called Next Romanian presidential election until the exact date is known, which will probably be in 2025. That makes it easy for the title. If they find a way to do it before the end of the year then I'd suggest 2024 Romanian presidential re-run election or December 2024 Romanian presidential election. Johndavies837 (talk) 20:35, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest that a module is used to seperate the first election and the re-run like on the 1922 Polish presidential elections article Polish kurd (talk) 20:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Number 57 in that we should see whether the fresh election is a re-run or a brand new election. So far, practice in Wikipedia has been to not split mere re-runs of annulled elections (Number 57 mentioned 2013 Maldivian presidential election, we also have 2016 Austrian presidential election), but to create new articles for elections that are new from scratch (2017 Kenyan general election/October 2017 Kenyan presidential election, 1997 Serbian general election/1997 Serbian presidential election, 2021 Berlin state election/2023 Berlin state election). In the latter case, though, I would support having it simply called "[Month if required] [Year] Romanian presidential election", without "re-run" or "repeat" in the title, as per WP:NCELECT. Impru20talk 09:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coup

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As per WP rules, we need enough secondary sources to create a 2024 Romanian coup d'état. Most media does use the word, but only as reporting others' word (as they actually should, as secondary sources, so no problem here). Trouble is, somehow the question of whether this is or isn't actually a coup (technically, a self-coup) isn't even discussed, despite put on the table by some proeminent forces, and pretty obvious (if cancelling election to prevent an opponent winning isn't a coup, what is?).

I am puzzled.

Respectively creating/not creating 2024 Romanian coup d'état is de facto siding with Romanian political forces respectively affirming/denying there is a coup going on. And as of today, WP is sifing with the latter. Not sure it should. Your thoughts? 2A01:E0A:1DC:4570:71AE:CE0A:C605:7A26 (talk) 09:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The election was not cancelled to prevent an opponent from winning, it was because evidence of Russian interference was declassified and released, therefore proving the election was messed with.
The same way notable right wing politicians falsely claim elections are "rigged" and "stolen" when Democrat candidates win in the United States, notable right wing politicians in Romania falsely claim this ordeal was a "coup."
It was not a coup. It was legally annulled after evidence was presented for an annulment to take place. Not creating an article going off of baseless claims is not "siding" with anyone.
A. Astronomy ꩜ 18:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hitler's Enabling Act was also enacted because of the "communist threat to Weimar democracy". Just because the ruling parties say something doesn't mean it's factual. Just because the judiciary says something doesn't mean it's factual (come on, they're appointed judges too?). Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's factual. My conclusion is that, whether this is seen as a coup or not, that's entirely subjective. About the article, however, there's probably not enough sources to create one about the supposed coup - probably should be folded into the "Annulment" section of this one, or perhaps a future article about what could be considered Romania's 2024 political crisis. Polish kurd (talk) 20:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the length, I hope it can help people understand why the decision was controversial but legitimate
As you correctly noted yourself, [m]ost media does use the word, but only as reporting others' word (as they actually should, as secondary sources, so no problem here), so Wikipedia (which is a tertiary source based around secondary sources) is not siding with the Romanian political forces ... denying there is a coup going on. Wikipedia is based around reliable sources, so we go by that, and if they only report others' word, it does not warrant an article (unless things are changed since last time I checked). In the lead, we already say: The aftermath of the first presidential vote was controversial and led Romania to the brink of a political crisis. ... On 6 December, the Constitutional Court reversed their decision and controversially annulled the first round of the election, after intelligence documents were declassified stating that Russia had run a coordinated online campaign to promote Georgescu. In the body, we also mention this: The annulment was condemned by both Georgescu and Lasconi, with Georgescu describing the court's verdict as a "formalised coup d'état", and Lasconi calling it "illegal [and] immoral" and stating that it "crushes the very essence of democracy". Fourth-placed George Simion also called the verdict a "coup d'état in full swing" but urged against street protests. Do you think coup should be in the lead? As the lead is also supposed to summarize the body, the latter should also discuss this more to be lead worthy, for example either expanding it a bit the "Aftermath and controversy" and "Annulment" sections or have a separate section briefly discussing this. Perhaps it can be discussed in a future article about what could be considered Romania's 2024 political crisis as suggested by Polish kurd.
While it is true Hitler's Enabling Act was also enacted because of the "communist threat to Weimar democracy" and just because the ruling parties say something doesn't mean it's factual (especially when it comes to certain U.S. Supreme Court's decision, I may add), the Court's decision, controversial or not, was legitimate insofar as it provided some evidence that Russia influence/interfered into the election (if only there was a Court doing the same thing to stop the violence and fraud by fascists in Italy and Germany in 1924 and 1932...). Also it is not like the elections are cancelled (they are going to be repeated), or that we are talking about an already full authoritarian country that rejected it merely because it did not like the results or invented that a foreign state interfered in the election making it obvious that this was a coup to end liberal democracy; you wrote if cancelling election to prevent an opponent winning isn't a coup, what is?, but the first round is going to be repeated and in fact this may ultimately favour Georgescu (although if he really committed a crime, the exclusion may be warranted, even if controversial), so this is not cancelling election to prevent an opponent winning.
Now if they do it again (I would expect they take counter-measures so that Russia, or any other country, does not interfere again and thus Romanians can have freer and fairer elections, so the repeated round will stand), or actually cancel the whole election and exclude Georgescu, that could be much closer to a coup and more problematic. Ultimately, I can agree that this is subjective (of course, those who won the first round are not going to be happy, and others may also not agree with the decision, which was nonetheless legitimate because the Court had this power and Russian interference was not a made up claim made by the Court) but at the same time we should not act like nothing happened in regards to Russia.

The same way notable right wing politicians falsely claim elections are "rigged" and "stolen" when Democrat candidates win in the United States, notable right wing politicians in Romania falsely claim this ordeal was a "coup." [I may add I very much doubt that with reversed role, where the Court annulled the first round win of a leftist or liberal, the Right or the same people calling it a coup would still say the same but they would call it legitimate; I am also sure a few would because there are still some coherent and consistent people.]

As noted, we must keep in mind that Trump created a big precedent for the loser to cry wolf, so I am not surprised of any of this, and yet compare Trump's behavior to that of Harris or Lasconi, both of whom either accepted the loss or criticized a decision that could help her (although Lasconi may have merely criticized the decision because now the Social Democrats may reach the second round in the re-run). It is kinda funny (it really is not because elections must be free and fair not subjected to foreign interference or state media bias and the loser(s) must accept the loss when it fair and square like it was in 2020 for Trump or in 2022 for Bolsonaro) that the global, pro-Trump Right is complaining about this being a coup when Trump essentially supported doing the same in 2020, with also the big and fundamental difference that in Trump's case there was no fraud whereas here there are intelligence documents showing that Russia had run a coordinated online campaign to help Georgescu. Like in football, a match may be repeated for the smallest of things; Georgescu was polling around 5% and then won 23%, it does not take a genius to realize that if Russia really interfered in his favour, it succeeded. Democracy is not an absolute, in the sense that it must also be free and fair (otherwise Russia and other authoritarian states are democratic just because they held elections and who finishes first win, regardless of whether they were free and fair, always win), and if Georgescu was really favoured by Russia through an illegal promotional campaign, it was not free and fair to the other competitors, as simple as that. In Italy, our sport fraud law is based on the concept of early consumation and that of danger, meaning that one does not even need to attempt to fix a match to commit a crime, he or she must simply act in a way that it put in danger the legal good (e.g. football), and it does not need to prove the match was fixed/altered in the first place. I think Russia certainly put the legal good (e.g. elections) in danger, and likely went further, since there are classified documents showing it promoted online Georgescu, who was also the only one whose campaign was mainly online (TikTok).
In this sense, I also fully share the comment that [t]he election was not cancelled to prevent an opponent from winning, it was because evidence of Russian interference was declassified and released, therefore proving the election was messed with. In conclusion, I would not say for sure that it was not a coup (I would let reliable sources and experts doing that for us), it was certainly controversial but ultimately legitimate (which does not necessarily preclude it being a coup, although as stated I feel like there would need a bit more to reach that criteria) as the Court had this power, and acting as though the elections were cancelled when only the first round was, that it is going to be repeated, and that this may ultimately backfire and increase support for Georgescu (so much for preventing an opponent from winning, they should have excluded him from the get go like they did with Diana Șoșoacă, now they may have helped him win), that is a bit too far. If the Court either again cancel the first round (this time without enough evidence) or the whole elections, and somehow the new government use emergency powers or slip towards further illiberalism and went full authoritarianism, with Iohannis still in power beyond caretaker role, now that would be another thing and definitely a coup and the end of liberal democracy in Romania. Davide King (talk) 12:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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