Talk:2023 Nigerien coup d'état

Information on coup leader

Any information on who led to coup -IAmYourDad2

its |Abdourahamane Tchiani @IAmYourDad2:

Hamadou Souley

Is the 'Hamadou Souley' mentioned in the article the same as Hama Hima Souley ('Hama Hima Souley ou Hamadou Hima Souley') found on French wikipedia? Yadsalohcin (talk) 08:27, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

It appears so. I won't mind if you fix the wikilink unless someone objects. Borgenland (talk) 14:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that's the same person. The interior minister's full name is Hamadou Adamou Souley, and he has been a politician for at least a decade, and had been a professor for a decade:

• https://www.unocha.org/sites/unocha/files/Bios%20-%20Session%20I%20%2822%20Jan%29.pdf
• https://www.gouv.ne/index.php/institutions/gouvernement

I imagine the French article would've mentioned any of that (especially him being the interior minister) if this was the same person. toweli (talk) 14:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Do you mind if I ask for an auto-translation from French wiki? Borgenland (talk) 17:13, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Reactions

I know that almost every country and bloc on the planet is scrambling to react to the coup, but please don't make a flag/country soup out of it and and make users wonder how many times the word concern and condemn appears upon clicking Control F. If you want to include a specific quote, please make sure it is non-monotonous/bland and contains slightly colorful wording. Borgenland (talk) 14:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Borgenland,

It appears that you are referring to my edits. My intention was to incorporate all the reactions, starting with the most recent ones, in a chronological order. Unfortunately, you deleted them without notifying me, even though it took considerable time to rewrite and add references. For future instances, please kindly notify the user and initiate a conversation before performing a massive delete.

Regards Riad Salih (talk) 14:50, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

My apologies. I hope you also saw my explanations in the edit summary. Borgenland (talk) 14:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I did, the reactions of the African Union and Algeria, along with some other African responses, hold more significance than that of the United States, which is on the other side of the world, France or other organizations. Providing specific details does not create a jumbled mess of information from a particular country or organization. Regardless, please inform me before making any massive deletions next time. Have a nice day. Riad Salih (talk) 14:59, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

"...the reactions of the African Union and Algeria, along with some other African responses, hold more significance than that of the United States, which is on the other side of the world, France .." That is a contentious proposition. People may believe that the reactions of the US and the old colonial power of France shouldn't be relevant to the country, but the reality of global politics is that they are, because of their support for Nigerien armed forces fighting insurgents (by the same token, the reaction of Russia which would like to replace the US and France, is also very significant). Would you agree that the outcome of the coup is likely to be decided by decision makers in Paris, Moscow or Washington: the people of the country themselves will yet again have little say in the matter. BobBadg (talk) 17:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Move

I think we should consider to move this to a word that is not Nigerien that sounds too close to Nigerian . How about we do 2023 Coup in Niger or 2023 Niger Coup? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:00, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this idea. 2023 Niger coup d'état would work and is in the style of other pages for coups. FelpixTheMaker (talk) 00:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Nigerien is the grammatical correct descriptor for Niger; whereas Nigerian is the corresponding term for Nigeria. Furthermore, the current title is in line with all other articles covering coups in Niger (1974, 1996, 1999, 2010, 2021) as well as many articles for coups in other countries. Yeoutie (talk) 02:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Russian involvement

Russia has been accused of supporting the putschists. 2A02:3030:818:3DF9:1:0:89E7:1D2A (talk) 18:02, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Accused not confirmed Napalm Guy (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Accused is not the same as confirmed Brek1234567 (talk) 07:44, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

French media as a reliable source?

How can french media be a reliable source? The French State has enormous strategic interest in the area, so how come the means of the French State propaganda be considered a reliable source? 79.166.3.165 (talk) 12:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

in the Wiki list of reliable sources (Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources), only AFP has been evaluated so far, with general consensus of reliability. Otherwise, unless you could prove detailed proof of interference on editorial policy by the French government such as state-run or state-funded tags along the lines of RT/CCTV/KCTV, most other French sources will stand. Borgenland (talk) 12:36, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Original research is not allowed at wikipedia, so it's irrelevant whether I can provide detailed proof of interference by the French State. 79.166.3.165 (talk) 09:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Nevertheless, your assumptions of strategic interests alone does not merit exclusion of French sources for your logic would mean every source from countries with a vested/strategic interest in Niger (France, US, UK, ECOWAS, the rest of the AU, EU, Russia and even the Gulf and China) would have been barred from this article. Borgenland (talk) 01:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Who said anything about original research? If a public document is found or articles alleging so with proper citation (as happens sometimes citing news channel controversies on Wiki) then maybe that would be an incentive to build your point Borgenland (talk) 02:16, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

To sum it off, a media source’s validity lies not on whether the country of origin has some history/political quirk but lies rather on the degree of editorial independence which as far as users consensus is concerned, does not compromise the sources you seek to question. Borgenland (talk) 02:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

2023 Nigerien crisis

I have had problems updating which article ever since the mass removal first happened. The creation of the crisis article should have been discussed here first to avoid going back and forth on edits, updates and revert. Borgenland (talk) 17:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

So this article now covers events 26-28 July; 2023 Nigerien crisis covers events 29 July to date. Is this accepted practice for articles on coups d'etat?Yadsalohcin (talk) 00:16, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Personally I believe users should have waited before any really pivotal moment such as an actual ECOWAS intervention. Borgenland (talk) 01:43, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Agree, and I don't understand what's going on here, large chunks of seemingly well referenced material keep disappearing and not always because they've been copied to another page... Yadsalohcin (talk) 23:16, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

You should have seen this bad edit in the crisis page. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2023_Nigerien_crisis&action=history&offset=20230805171107%7C1168878509 Borgenland (talk) 01:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Some references unrelated

Citacion 28 for example talks about plane and drones shipment for mali not about what the preceding paragraph says. This increases biases in the article by using russian affiliation as a weapon to swerve public opinion on the matter. 79.116.125.62 (talk) 14:18, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Political support for Biafra (GIE)

Considering that Biafra seperaists shouldn't be added to the Niger crisis should they be added to the Niger coup as giving political support? Thanks Brek1234567 (talk) 16:52, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

The question is whether they supported the act itself or the aftermath of the act only. Borgenland (talk) 16:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

In that case I suggest holding off on that. Borgenland (talk) 16:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok Brek1234567 (talk) 17:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Well Simon ekpa is the self proclaimed leader of Biafra and he said he supports them and will support them in an event of a military intervention Brek1234567 (talk) 17:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I do need to emphasize that Ekpa is just one of several proclaiming themselves to be representatives of Biafra. Borgenland (talk) 08:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean yes it is true Brek1234567 (talk) 09:19, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

If it is the main leader, I would put it Neo Trixma (talk) 09:37, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

He is the only self proclaimed seperaists leader of Biafra as seen in the page of the indigenous peoples of r Brek1234567 (talk) 12:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Found it, but I suggest that Biafra be changed to IPOB since it has no official recognition anywhere, similar to Chechen volunteers fighting for Ukraine. Borgenland (talk) 12:30, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah ok Brek1234567 (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Or the liberation of Biafra as seen in Simon Ekpa movement Brek1234567 (talk) 14:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

His political group whatever its formal name is probably sufficient. Borgenland (talk) 14:21, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok then Brek1234567 (talk) 14:51, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

they supported the act and the aftermath Brek1234567 (talk) 17:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Russia reaction to Ecowas

Hi Borgenland, since it is a reaction to the Ecowas announcement, I think it would be more appropriate after the Ecowas announcement Neo Trixma (talk) 11:25, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

The first Russian reaction was also made when ECOWAS made its first hints so I decided to consolidate it. But I won’t mind if you decide to rv it just use past tense so it doesn’t look like a copy paste from a press release. Borgenland (talk) 12:19, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the tip Neo Trixma (talk) 09:53, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Merge

See: Talk:2023 Nigerien crisis#Merge with 2023 Nigerien coup d'état. Fontaine347 (talk) 13:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

The US has concluded that it is a coup

see https://www.state.gov/military-coup-detat-in-niger/ 218.102.86.21 (talk) 10:53, 22 October 2023 (UTC)