Talk:2023

2023 Collage Full Discussion

This process will be a 3-step process:

1. Candidates by everyone
2. An RfC to discuss and “ratify” the candidates <—— Current Step in Process
3. An RfC to vote for the collage images and events

The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 14:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Where was the decision that we needed a collage for 2023, and where is the discussion on how the process should be carried out? Deb (talk) 08:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @Deb on this matter. I'm of the belief we should wait until 2025 to make decisions on what images to add for 2023. It gives more time for users to reflect on what events are most important for 2023 and we can get more objective consensus. PaulRKil (talk) 18:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

The process I proposed & started is over two-months long (with two separate RfCs). Waiting until 2025 doesn't really do much since there would be over 2 months of community discussion and reflection (At least 2 RfCs). By the end of it (in March 2024), we should easily know what was the biggest events of 2023. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:41, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 15:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

bro no, that's boring, that's more like the opposite, and so in my opinion I don't think that waiting until 2025 would be a good idea MJGTMKME123 (talk) 15:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Step 1 (Candidates)

In this discussion, add image and/or event candidates that you think should or could be in the yearly collage image. To add candidates, add the image as [[File:Example.jpg|250x250px]] followed by OPTION (Letter next in order). To add a second image candidate for the same event, add it as OPTION X(Number next in order).

This discussion will not be voted on until at least: 14:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC).

Candidates

OPTION A(1): Brazilian Congress attack

OPTION A(2): Brazilian Congress attack

OPTION B: East Ohio trail derailment

OPTION C: Turkey-Syria earthquakes

OPTION D: International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova

OPTION E: United States banking crisis

OPTION F(1): Coronation of Charles III and Camilla

OPTION F(2): Coronation of Charles III and Camilla

OPTION G: SAG-AFTRA strike

OPTION H(1): Hawaii wildfires

Option H(2): Hawaii wildfires

OPTION I: Storm Daniel

OPTION J: Israel-Hamas war

OPTION K: Protests against the Israel-Hamas war

OPTION L(1): Chinese balloon incident

OPTION L(2): Chinese balloon incident

OPTION M: 29 December 2023 Russian strikes on Ukraine — Russian invasion of Ukraine

OPTION O Barbie becomes the highest-grossing film of 2023

OPTION P: refugees of the Sudan conflict in Chad 🌺 Cremastra (talk)

OPTION Q(1): Wildfires in Saskatchewan. 🌺 Cremastra (talk)

OPTION Q(2): aftermath of fires in NWT. 🌺 Cremastra (talk)

OPTION R: Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians. User:JohnAdams1800 (talk)

OPTION S: 2023 Odisha train collision User:Nagae Iku

OPTION T: Chandrayaan-3 User:Nagae Iku

OPTION U: 2023 Marrakesh–Safi earthquake User:Nagae Iku

OPTION V: 2023 Herat earthquakes User:Nagae Iku

OPTION W: Guyana–Venezuela crisis (2023–present) User:Nagae Iku

OPTION X: Wagner Group rebellion User:Nagae Iku

OPTION Y: Cyclone Freddy User:Nagae Iku — Preceding undated comment added 03:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

OPTION Z: Leaders of the "October 15 Coalition" who won the parliamentary elections in Poland, which had a historically high turnout (~74%) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Szturnek (talk • contribs) 19:21, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

OPTION AA: NATO expands with Finland as new member. — HTGS (talk) 22:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

OPTION AB: Titan submersible implosion. — HTGS (talk) 22:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Option AC: SpaceX Starship integrated flight test 1 The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 02:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Option AD: Generative artificial intelligence/AI boom — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ye9CYNMD (talk • contribs) 20:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Candidates discussion

Add discussion for the images here. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 14:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Strongly suggest swapping coronation for a tighter photo, eg the one at Coronation of Charles III and Camilla. Bear in mind that photos are viewed small in a collage, so large, distinct features are strongly preferred. — HTGS (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I just added the closer-zoomed image as a second option. In the discussion above this one, another user added the larger-zoom image, so I am not going to directly remove it. But you are absolutely right! A smaller image was needed. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 22:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - Once again, highly US-centric options have been offered. This proposed collage purports itself to be a pictorial summary of the year. Therefore, the initial list should be a list of Events that are agreed to be the most important of the year. Only after that's been agreed should we start looking for images of those events. Deb (talk) 08:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Deb: — I think you are missing the idea of this first week. Everyone can add images and events. It is U.S. centric as only a single image has been added in addition to the images from the previous list. Add anything you think needs to be there. Step 1 is a week for everyone to add images. Step 2 is a vote to agree these are the candidates for the vote. Step 3 is the vote. If it is U.S. centric, now is your chance to add images to counter it. In short, add images right now. There is at least 6 days where you can before any sort of votes take place. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 15:18, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, everyone can add images and events, and those images and events can be removed by anyone else. If you are putting a collage at the top of a year page, purporting to be a summary of the year, then it must be a summary of the year, not just a set of images that someone happened to be able to find that they thought looked nice. There is no agreement on the process for agreeing content of a proposed collage, and you should not be trying to impose one. Deb (talk) 16:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  I am not trying to be rude here at all, but I am completely confused why you say I am “trying to impose” the process for it. I legit proposed this idea in the now closed attempt above where you and three other editors all basically agreed to it. You basically just walked back on your previous statement, where you said no one should start a collage discussion with images they choose. The way to counter that was to allow everyone to add images. Then we vote to agree those are the candidates. Then we vote on the collage images. No one is imposing anything. I had practical consensus, including from you for this process. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#RfC: Removal of image collages was the long discussion which involved 67 people and 220 comments about collages. In reality there was collage images on every yearly article. These got removed and then was agreed to be reinstated. The big topic of debate was that there was no process to begin with. I proposed a process and had, what I presumed was, at least a running consensus going forward, since you are three others supported the idea I proposed. I apologize if I mistook your “Absolutely” here as a support for what I proposed. What are your concerns with my proposed idea, since you questioned the idea that one person should decide the images & the idea that the community shouldn’t decide the images. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  I agreed that consensus should be sought for the images that are included. I have never agreed that this is a good way of finding consensus. I say that you are trying to impose a process because that's what you are doing. You are suggesting that somewhere there has been an agreement that the images people like best, rather than images of the most significant events, should be included in a pictorial summary of the year. This is not the case and the method you propose, by its very nature, cannot ensure that the selection of images is a fair and impartial summary as required by the NPOV policy. Deb (talk) 18:26, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  So what do you propose we do then to fix this? A single RfC will not cut it per NPOV, so it needs to be a multi-step RFC proposal to fix any issues. I am open to all suggestions. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  I've already stated above. You need to get consensus on what the most important events are, then look for images. Deb (talk) 09:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that might sound “good” in theory, but without a plan to execute that, it won’t work. Also, a counter to that argument is the collage on World War II. One would easily argue D-Day as being one of the most important events during the war. And yet, it is not in the collage. Collages are supposed to be images (not necessarily events) that help showcase the year. This way seems to work, and so far, your challenge is a minority view. I will note this down though so if others start to oppose this method, we can have a full-RfC to determine what method to use. Cheers! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  So you mean that it's okay for you to make up your own plan for what you want to do, but you don't want to put any effort into making a plan that has a chance of making the result compliant with Wikipedia policy? "Collages are supposed to be images (not necessarily events) that help showcase the year" - where did you hear that? We don't need to "showcase" the year - the year happened and the article already exists. Deb (talk) 18:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#RfC: Removal of image collages. That idea that we don’t need to “showcase” the year is not the consensus. The consensus is to have collages. Collages existed on every yearly article until they were removed before the RfC concluded. The RfC actually concluded that they should be added back in. There was and is no formal plan for collages. Right now, I could make a collage and add it without a discussion. I am not doing that as comments brought up in the RfC commented that there was no procedures in place at all. Yes I made this procedure up because it is the first one. Again, you are the first (and so far only) person to question this procedure, which is the first of its kind. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:33, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  No, the consensus (allegedly) is to reject the idea of not having collages. It's still necessary to discuss the proposed content. Deb (talk) 16:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

We’re most halfway through this year, did we just quit? Indiana6724 (talk) 22:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Two-month step process, my foot. Figure the image out or never put it on the freaking page. DementiaGaming (talk) 02:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, I added one in. You can lose your minds on it again and argue about it for months again, or you can just let it go and accept the fact that even though it might not suit all your wants, it features 8 notable-enough events to be on the photomontage. DementiaGaming (talk) 03:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. 27 is my favorite number. You can ask me why here. 19:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

How? There is no process. This process which I started is the only currently-existing process for collage image decisions. You want us to decide for the events, which is not what the collage is for. The collage is some of the best pictures to represent the year. Again, this discussion was not required by any means as there was no process before. The sole reason I started this discussion was because people had concerns of OR in that large RfC. Since there is no standardized process, there is no reason to alter this proposal of a method. If you think this idea that I proposed does not work, I encourage you to start your own RfC to create a standardized method for collages. Until then, there is no better way to solve the debate on collages, since this method allows for everyone to add candidates, everyone to vote on the candidates & most importantly, a community consensus on what images are the most important or most worthy of the collage. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

To solve your issue, the proposal is 100% spelled out here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#Proposal for a standardized process for yearly collage images. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:24, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Is there a better image of the effect Storm Daniel had on the places it impacted? I think it would be more appropriate to showcase that instead of a meteorological image. PaulRKil (talk) 18:48, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

PaulRKil: One could be added as a candidate, but a quick glance at 2005 shows a satellite view of Hurricane Katrina rather than a damage image. Also, the Storm Daniel article doesn’t really have a “damage” style picture on it. The Commons may have one though that could be thrown into the mix. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:04, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support A, C, H(2), I, K, M, & P as the most internationally and long-term significant. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 00:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Cremastra, just a head's up, the vote for the collage images isn't yet. This is just a week period for people to submit what images they think should or could be in the collage. Then, we will vote to ensure there is a consensus for a college vote (basically a vote to see if consensus allows us to move forward for a collage). Then we actually vote for the 8 collage images. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:39, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. My bad. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 13:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Comment--I support inclusion of a photo for the Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians, as it relates to the conclusion of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict which was a 35-year old post-Soviet conflict that ended on 1 January 2024 with the dissolution of the Republic of Artsakh. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 00:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Good plan. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 01:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• NATO expansion would be a good idea. And maybe Titan submersible implosion? The best image we have is File:231001-G-G0000-1001.jpg in my opinion. — HTGS (talk) 03:53, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• A、C、E、F(2) 、I、J、P、R、X User:Nagae Iku (talk) 04:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Nagae Iku. We aren't voting for the candidates yet. This is just a period of time for everyone to add candidates in without a vote yet. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 04:44, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry about this, I read it wrong before adding a reply.😵 Nagae Iku (talk) 04:50, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• The Barbie image as shown here is not eligible for inclusion. The given caption does not correspond to an event. It's doubtful whether the release of the film should even be included under events. Deb (talk) 09:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  Can you explain why the image is not eligible? It appears to be licensed CC BY-SA 2.0, so should be fine in any article. — HTGS (talk) 22:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

  Because the given caption does not correspond to an event. Deb (talk) 16:53, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I've explained to you how a meaningful process that complies with NPOV could be introduced. Is there any reason for you to oppose that? Deb (talk) 18:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

The process your proposed, if I understand correctly was: RfC on which events are most important. Then using that list, you find the images. That doesn’t work since an important event may not have a good image or even a visually appealing image. Here is a good example. Imagine if the 2024 missile strikes in Yemen was voted to be one of the 6 event candidates. The two actual “images” (excluding the map) for it are very dark due to it being night time. That said, another image from a slightly lesser-known or lesser-important event (random example: Attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria (2023–present)) would be a heck of a lot more ascetically appealing for readers. Decided what is the most important events doesn’t really work well since collages (i.e. images) aren’t events. That is the issue. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:23, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Deb That approach sounds like a good way to waste time. The current process is already more drawn out than it needs to be IMO, but it does inherently include user selection of important events. If you have important events you think should be included here, suggest them and others can find images for them if you are having a hard time. — HTGS (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

The most significant events of 2023 are the events mentioned in the lead of the article. If that's not the case, then the lead needs fixing, separate from any image selection. But it shouldn't be difficult to identify the most significant events of the year, as they'd be the ones in the lead, and ergo the images for the collage should be images of what's mentioned in the lead.

However, the collage is going to depict a subset of the events in the lead (because there are too many events for one collage). Image search and selection would be narrowed if editors first decided which events in the lead are important enough to include in the collage. That should be Step 1. That would save time and reduce the number of images to find/look at/discuss. Step 2 would then be finding/agreeing on the "best" image for each lead event that will be depicted in the collage.

Lead events that don't make it into the collage should be pictured elsewhere in the article (they're "important" enough for a picture). So, another way to go about this is to just find the "best" images of everything that's mentioned in the lead, and then discuss which of those images should be in the lead collage, and which in the body of the article. Levivich (talk) 00:29, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Since this discussion/debate doesn't really apply to "2023", I would invite y'all (Deb, HTGS, Levivich) to participate in the discussion about this method over on WP:YEARS: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#Proposal for a standardized process for yearly collage images. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

So far there has been a lot of discussion about how to discuss the images. How about @Deb or @Levivich you give your takes on which events should be featured? Because that process is not incompatible to the current one. — HTGS (talk) 00:43, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

In my view, "year in review" sources should be used to determine the most significant events of the year (what should go in the lead). I'm not sure what sources the current lead is based on if any, and I'm not confident the current lead has all the most significant events of the year per RS. But choosing from what's in the lead right now, I'd say: Turkey/Syria earthquake, Gaza war, N-K war, banking crisis. Chandrayaan-3 isn't in the lead but I bet RS would suggest it should be, and if so, I'd say also in the collage as a 5th image. For a 6th, I don't know that you can find an image of AI (that's not an advertisement, e.g. not a logo), so maybe Cyclone Nargis. Levivich (talk) 00:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I know - I've already suggested a process very similar to this. That's where the proposer got the idea. Deb (talk) 09:32, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

• I am deeply flattered by the suggestion that one of my photos has been suggested as a part of the collage. It really means a lot to me. SWinxy (talk) 06:37, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

  This doesn't sound like a good thing. If you care about your personal kudos, you're in the wrong place. Deb (talk) 15:51, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

• A(1), C, F(1), H(2), J, L(2), X, AB. ArionStar (talk) 19:06, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

  Almost half of the year 2024 and… ArionStar (talk) 22:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

  Perhaps we could ask an admin what to do on this. We're still stuck on step 2, and every side of a "dispute" has been answered. 27 is my favorite number. You can ask me why here. 23:35, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, because this is just starting to get ridiculous. Indiana6724 (talk) 23:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Step 2 (Ratify the Candidates)

1. Discussion on the three event candidates which had multiple images proposed.
2. Ratification RfC to determine if we can move on to the collage vote.

• A new collage is out. What about this one? ArionStar (talk) 02:41, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

@27 is the best number, @Cremastra, @DementiaGaming, @Indiana6724, @Leventio, @Nagae Iku, @WeatherWriter. ArionStar (talk) 19:59, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. The one currently in the article looks good. Cremastra (talk) 21:41, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@DementiaGaming: could you realign the collage? I just tried to replace a image, but I don't think I did it the right way. ArionStar (talk) 00:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@ArionStar I like it. It's good to me. 27 is my favorite number. You can ask me why here. 01:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@Nagae Iku: Could you please help me to replace the image of the Brazilian Congress correctly? ArionStar (talk) 20:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Multiple choice discussion

2023 Brazilian Congress attack

Option A(1) or A(2)?

• A(1) - I think it is a better image of "Brazilian Congress attack" than the second one. The first one clearly shows multiple people and a Brazilian flag. The second one, on the other hand, looks like ruins. Without context, it would be hard to tell that this was an attack on the Brazilian Capitol. 27 is my favorite number. You can ask me why here. 19:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Coronation of Charles III and Camilla

Option F(1) or F(2)?

• Option F(2) – The more zoomed-in image is needed as the candidate of choice. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:52, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

• F2 — brighter and more recognizable. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 22:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
• F2 - Clearer and more focused on the item in question, and aligns more with MOS:IMAGEQUALITY. F1 is somewhat less clear and has less lighting in its depiction. Leventio (talk) 22:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

• F2 or another one - This picture is nice, but it's a bit too wide in the crop. Here are two other options that I personally think are cropped better:

Nagae Iku (talk) 02:51, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

• F(2). ArionStar (talk) 19:14, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

2023 Hawaii wildfires

Option H(1) or H(2)?

• Option H(2) – This was featured on the mainpage ITN for 8 days, so it is the more valuable image from the wildfires. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:52, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
• H(2). ArionStar (talk) 19:14, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

2023 Chinese balloon incident

Option L(1) or L(2)?

• L(1) - Clearly depicts a balloon. The second one, at a glance, could easily be misinterpreted as generic fishing. 27 is my favorite number. You can ask me why here. 19:05, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

2023 Canadian wildfires

Option Q(1) or Q(2)?

• Option Q(1) – Seeing the satellie-style view of the wildfires and smoke is a better image to me than the damage image of Q(2). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:52, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

• Q1 per WeatherWriter. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 22:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
• Q1 per WeatherWriter. Better depicts the topic in question. Leventio (talk) 22:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

  nibga just choose it 58.84.108.173 (talk) 07:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Please do not use that language on Wikipedia, okay? 👍 Indiana6724 (talk) 07:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  He has a point. Decide it or just don't add a collage. DementiaGaming (talk) 16:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Language extinction

Various languages becoming extinct following the death of their final speaker.

• Columbia-Moses - death on May 2nd, 2023, following the death of Pauline Stensgar

87.241.158.140 (talk) 12:42, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Continuing the collage discussion

Image E - the US banking crisis - had only one vote as far as I can see. This was a domestic event that does not lend itself to a visual summary and should be immediately removed from the collage. Deb (talk) 08:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I’m neutral on the topic’s inclusion, but I don’t like the rationale that no domestic events may be included. I could call maybe half of the current images “domestic” (especially Hawaii, but also Brazil). I also think we could do a lot worse for visual representation—we have three photos of hard-to-discern general destruction—but I see your point. For me, it comes down to importance, and it just feels borderline. But there are a lot of borderline topics. — HTGS (talk) 03:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying no domestic events may be included, but normally they are omitted if they don't have a major worldwide effect. As usual, this collage is US-centric, and I agree that several of the other images are equally uninformative. I'm moved to comment it out unless a genuine attempt is made to achieve consensus. Deb (talk) 13:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

“Major worldwide effect”: I’m fine with this, but I would also add an OR for something like “significant domestic historical importance”. I agree about the collage being US centric, but US financial events do have more global importance than most countries. Again, I am neutral on this one, so if nobody else comments, you can just remove it (as a somewhat WP:BOLD edit), but if we were acting on your criteria, wouldn’t the fires in Hawaii have even less “major worldwide effect”?

For the record, I would cast only a weak vote to remove the Hawaii wildfires, and I would replace either with the coronation of Charles III and the expansion of NATO, both being more international, and more historically significant. But perhaps it’s worth just carrying on with WeatherWriter's planned polls? — HTGS (talk) 22:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

My opinion: the largest banking crisis in the largest economy in the world is very featured. ArionStar (talk) 02:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I added a new collage suggestion. Balanced? ArionStar (talk) 02:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

A doubt: Wagner Group or Putin? ArionStar (talk) 01:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Nagae Iku: does it looks good enough? ArionStar (talk) 03:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

That's nice, but the image of the Chinese balloon and King Charles III's coronation are cropped a bit unattractively. Maybe I can make some slight modifications and help you upload it.

Then let me share my views on the Wagner coup and the arrest warrant for Putin: The Wagner coup was a significant event, as it is rare for such an occurrence to happen in one of the top three countries in the world. It captured global attention in the last days of June, but ultimately, the coup fizzled out. The arrest warrant for Putin is also a major event, with 123 countries obligated to arrest him, covering almost two-thirds of the world. This makes it a global issue. However, in September 2024, Putin visited one of the signatory countries—Mongolia—without being arrested, which undermines the feasibility and significance of the treaty. In summary, I believe both events are very important, and I find it difficult to choose between them. Nagae Iku (talk) 07:22, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

By the way, Putin did not attend the Brazil's G20 summit most likely due to his obvious arrest; Putin is visually a more recognizable figure. Could you fix the collage issues, please? ArionStar (talk) 09:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd disagree. The Wagner coup was highly newsworthy and widely reported; the Putin arrest warrant far less so. Deb (talk) 18:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, right. Just waiting for the Iku's update. ArionStar (talk) 00:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)