Talk:2002 Austrian Grand Prix

Similar event the year before?

Someone amended Formula One to add details of a similar Ferrari 'team orders' incident in 2001. The words added were as follows:

In the Austrian Grand Prix in 2001, Rubens Barrichello, Schumacher's teammate at Ferrari who was 2nd in the race, was ordered by Ferrari to allow Schumacher to overtake him under "team orders". Barrichello let him pass on the last lap at the finish line. But this was further uproar to come at the same track the following year when the same situation happened, only this time, it was for the lead of the race. And not only did Barrichello slow down to let Schumacher through, the world champion made his embarrased team-made stand on the top-step of the podium which caused outrage with the supporters at the circuit and around the world. As a direct consequence of this controversial race, the FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. It was Ferrari all the way

If this is accurate, we could mention here that a similar incident occured the year before. I haven't checked the accuracy of the statement, though. I've deleted it from the main F1 article as being too much detail for an article which is already over long and slightly incidental. 4u1e 18:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 03:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the use of team orders by Ferrari to determine the winner of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix led to a ban on the practice in Formula One from 2003 to 2010? Source: Rubinho diz que foi ameaçado para dar posição a Schumacher em 2002 – Rede Globo & Barrichello Reveals He Queried Team Orders in Austria – Atlas F1
  • ALT1:... that Ferrari used team orders on driver Rubens Barrichello to allow his teammate Michael Schumacher to win the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix and earn more World Drivers' Championship points? Source: Changes steer towards more open Formula One – The Sydney Morning Herald & F1 chiefs drop the ban on team orders in new rules – BBC Sport
  • ALT2:... that after he won the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix through team orders, driver Michael Schumacher gave the first-place trophy to his Ferrari teammate Rubens Barrichello at the post-race podium ceremony? Source: Formula One: Barrichello ushers Schumacher to first – International Herald Tribune

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Lisa Gordon-Hagerty

5x expanded by MWright96 (talk). Self-nominated at 13:44, 18 September 2019 (UTC).

• This article is a fivefold expansion and is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline and any of the hooks could be used, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. A QPQ has been done. I remember the race well and the controversy it caused. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:05, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2002 Austrian Grand Prix/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 02:09, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead
That this was a 71-lap race isn't mentioned in the body of the article. Added in the background section MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Background

70 percent of the lap could be driven at full racing speed — Could, or can? The preceding sentence is in the present tense. Fixed MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) What about low altitude reduced engine performance? Edited MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) Looking at the source, this is incorrect. The altitude was considered high, not low, and so there was less oxygen to power the combustion engines. I've edited accordingly. Noted MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Ferrari led with 50 points, seven ahead of Williams in second place. McLaren were another 30 points behind in third. — A bit more math than I'd like to do while perusing. Can you just state how many McLaren had? Added MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Practice

Heidfeld's on-track running — Heidfeld's track time? Yes have rewritten to say exactly that MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) the overall track lap record — Meaning the track's all-time record? What's the time he beat, and who set it/when? Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) The rewording only affects prose. It still does not explain whether "overall track lap record" indeed means the track's all-time record. It also does not state what time he beat, who set the previous time, and when that time was set. Have rewritten since I can't find that information MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Bernoldi missed 25 minutes due to a malfunctioning gearbox. He lost control of the rear of his car at Remus corner and beached in a gravel trap before the session ended. — So they repaired the gearbox, he got back on the track, and then he decided to take a closer look at the gravel? Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Qualifying

After running wide on oil and an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota putting him in a gravel trap at Remus Kurve turn on his final timed lap, Barrichello took his second pole position of the season and the fifth of his career with a lap of 1 minute and 8.082 seconds. — I'm pretty confused by this sentence. What does "running wide on oil mean"? What's "an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota"? Surely "Kurve turn" is redundant? And the sentence starts with Barrichello's bad last lap, then surprises the reader by saying he actually did quite well. Perhaps start with his fast lap, then talk about his last lap. Removed MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) did not earn a front-row start for the first time since the 2001 Italian Grand Prix. — How many races ago was that? And just to confirm, a front-row start is being one of the top two? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) A1 Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) on the leaked oil. — From the engine failure? Yes MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Remus Kurve turn — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Webber optimised his PS02's balance on its qualifying tyre — What does this mean? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) What does it mean to optimize a car's balance on its qualifying tire? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Warm-up

Remus Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Castrol Kurve turn — Ditto Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Castrol Kurve corner — Same Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Ron Dennis ... argued Ferrari should permit their drivers to race each other without the imposition of team orders — Was there any more discussion about this before the race? What made him say it here? Is it a common thing for someone to say before a race, but team orders are only invoked rarely? There was no such discussions as far as it known and it was added since the team orders became an issue later on in the day MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) extended from turn one to the first portion of the straight driving towards turn one — And now there's this problem. --Usernameunique (talk) 06:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Have fixed the problem MWright96 (talk) 07:25, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Race

Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant? Why linked here but not earlier? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) At Remus Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) he slowed en route to retire in the pit lane — Did he retire at the end of that lap? De la Rosa did indeed retire at the end of the lap MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) after Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) lost it ethrough a driver error. — What was the error? Villeneuv ran wide MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) failed in Remus Kurve turn — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) at the A1 Kurve corner — Ditto Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Villeneuve had incurred a drive-through penalty — What's this? Added wikilink MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Track marshals worked to extricate Panis' car — Worked to extricate it from what? If the track, I'd suggest "worked to remove". Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) entered Remus Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) from the apex — Link apex? Added wikilink MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) He veered right through 180 degrees to the inside backwards — What does this mean? Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) avoided grazing his right thigh — Then what caused the soft-tissue damage? Removed the later statement MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) What does it mean for a head restraint to be deformable? It meant it could withstand accidents and be reshaped MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) several teams except for Ferrari and Williams — Meaning every team except for Ferrari and Williams? Yes MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) Coulthard at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) This improved Schumacher's position in the World Drivers' Championship with a win earning him ten points. — Feels like we're getting ahead of ourselves here, since he still had 8 laps to go. Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) Ferrari advised Barrichello they would terminate his contract if he failed to do so. Barrichello reminded Todt of a promise he made not to relinquish a victory to a driver. This prompted Todt to reply to Barrichello that he was required to obey his instruction to preserve Ferrari's "best interests". — Ouch. This conversation actually played out over the radio? They didn't think to have the conversation ahead of time? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) Todt then wrote a small paper note, which he gave to the technical director Ross Brawn, with the instruction for Barrichello to cede the win to Michael Schumacher. — Why was the note required? Hadn't he already told Barrichello to stand down? Removed MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) entered A1 Kurve turn — Redundant? Removed MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Michael Schumacher slowed more than his teammate — Why? Have added the information MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Montoya completed the podium in third — I'd add how far behind he was; in reading about the Barrichello and Schumacher hitting the brakes, my first thought was to wonder how far back the third-place driver was. Added MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) It was the second year in succession that Barrichello had been asked to relinquish a position to his teammate Michael Schumacher — I would move this note up to the previous paragraph. Done MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) The photographs do a good job of breaking up the text. You might think about choosing some places to add subsections, although they would of course be somewhat arbitrary. No harm if you keep it as is.

Post-race

the package of his car — What's this? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) The FIA summoned Ferrari and its drivers — When did they summon them (i.e., the date on which they told them to show up on 26 June)? Yes MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) divided into equal amounts between the trio — So Barrichello had to pay $166,666 for losing? Double ouch. Well for standing on the wrong step of the podium because Schumacher implored him to do so as a way of demonstrating to all that Barrichello was the moral winner of the race MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) The FIA accepted feedback from 5 July to 1 September, which the working group accepted. — I'm not sure if the second clause is redundant, or if you're trying to say that the FIA accepted feedback and then passed it onto the working group. Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) The parallels between how Michael Schumacher and Alonso won those races proved to be the catalyst — The parallels proved to be the catalyst, or just the realization that it probably happened frequently without overt evidence? Clarified MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) we'd had the discussion before the race about how we would manage that situation if it occurred — Then what about the back-and-forth between Barrichello and Todt? Removed MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Race classification
Is ten retirements particularly high? In that time period yes because cars were less reliable than they are now MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Overall

• Nicely done, MWright96. Plenty of comments above but nothing major. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • @Usernameunique: Have made changes were possible. In response to asking whether it is redundant to mention turn names, I have changed them to a generic meaning since their names have changed but mentioning where on the circuit an overtake or accident happened is not redundant. MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
    • Thanks, MWright96. I'll go through the responses tomorrow. What I meant about the redundancy is that, taking "Remus Kurve turn" for an example, it basically means "Remus Corner turn"; "corner" and "turn" mean the same thing here. So I would think just "Remus Kurve" and similar would do. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:47, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
      • I have changed them to something generic so that does not need to be done MWright96 (talk) 07:53, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
        • Passing now. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)