Talk:1954 Cathay Pacific Douglas DC-4 shootdown

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Communist China

On 26 July 1954, two Douglas Skyraiders from the aircraft carriers USS Philippine Sea and Hornet successfully shot down two PLAAF La-7s off the coast of Hainan Island while searching for survivors after the shooting down of a Cathay Pacific Skymaster airliner 3 days previously, also by La-7s.

The above is mentioned in the Skyraider page, but not here... With the long list on military aircraft mentioned in the SAR mission, surely this should also be mentioned?--JRdinosaurJR (talk) 07:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

La-7's, or La-9's?

The La-7 page here on wiki says those a/c were only operated by the USSR and Czechs. The La-9 page says 150 of those were exported to China in 1950 - is thsi a case of mistaken identity of similar a/c?--Aloysius the Gaul (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

La-11, La-9?

On 26 July 1954, during the survivor search operation, two Douglas Skyraiders from the aircraft carriers USS Philippine Sea and Hornet shot down two Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force La-9s off the coast of Hainan Island. It is not known whether they were the same La-9s that shot down VR-HEU.

This is wrong from several angles. One, the source speaks of La-7, not La-9. Second, the rest of the article identifies the attackers as La-11. They can't possibly be all three at once. -- DevSolar (talk) 13:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Input from Raymond J Smith

The following part was added by user Raymond J Smith on 25 August 2017. I removed it from the main article, since it was awkwardly inserted at the very end and not clearly sourced. The closest reference I found to this book is at https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv47-54/136.htm, where next to the crew photo also an ENS R. J. SMITH is mentioned - probably the author? Grottenolm42 (talk) 19:09, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From My VF-92 Cruise Book, 1954

  "The island of Hainan, located close aboard the southeast coast of China, lies near the airways connecting Indochina with Hong Kong.  On 24 July a Cathay Airlines DC-4, on its way to Hong Kong was intercepted and shot down by two Communist Chinese aircraft.  During the ensuing search for survivors, the USS Philippine Sean and the USS Hornet steamed into the area, launching AD's and F4u-SN's with jet cover to assist in the search..  On the moring of 26 July, with extensive operations underway, two Red La-&'s fired upon three Skyraiders (AD's)about twenty miles seaward of Hainan.  In the time it takes to read this, the fracas joined by eight additional AD's and two Corsairs piloted by LCDR. "Bud" Salsig and LTjg Doyle Stuherland.  Against this opposition, the La-7's found themselves outmanned, outgunned and out of luck.  The Communist Chinese attack was unprovoked but the results were decisive.  One is reminded of the colonial "Don't Tread On Me".  And prop Pilots the world over are gloating at jet pilots."

(Note. I was on the first flight of the Phill Sea's area search in a F9F-2. The search was organized with 4 AD's at 500 ft. 4 AD's at 4,000 ft., 4 AD's at 8,000 ft, 4 at 12,000 ft. 2 F4U-5N' which had the onboard Search Radar, which early detected the La7's at 15,000 ft, 4 Jet F9F-2 at 20,000 and 4 F9F-6 at 30,000, and 4 more f9f-6's at 40000 ft. The first flight saw nothing. The second launch with same organization but with the addition of AD's with the Air Group Commander on board first radar spotted the approaching La-7's at 15,000. La-7's only saw CAG's 3 AD flight and lined up and were closing behind it. When the La-7's were almost in firing position CAG's flight made a tight U turn for a head on attack while calling for other aircraft's assistance. The AD's were climbing while the Jets were coming down. With close mid-airs, the first was blown up while the second dove toward Hainan to get back within Chinese territory but was shot down before reaching it. It was said to get credit, camera frames had to show wing tip to wing tip, Pilots got 1/13 credits.)

DC-4 or C-54 ?

There are several issues here. Although it might be termed propaganda, it is simple commonsense to describe this civilian airliner in terminology that reflects the actual use at the time. Newspaper headlines at the time would most likely identify it as a DC-4. There are plenty of instances where type-certificates state one thing, whilst we all give it a different name in daily use. This is far more common than many imagine.

Note that the List of Douglas DC-4 variants includes the C-54. And by the time the airframe has gone back to Douglas and been re-worked into a civilian airliner, there should be no need to apologise for describing it as a DC-4, even if the original paperwork still cites C-54A.

Looking at it from the other perspective; the current incarnation of Air Force One is a Boeing 747-200B, but if you dare to call it anything other than a VC-25A, you will be labelled unpatriotic. WendlingCrusader (talk) 04:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]